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Old 10-20-2017, 04:19 PM
 
605 posts, read 423,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
very good CrownVic. perfect little urban progressive (regressive in my eyes) bubble cities like Baltimore, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
What they can't stand is truth. That's what you're known for posting, and it encroaches on their perfect little urban-progressive bubble. So they try to shut you down any contemptible way they can think of....this time charging "trolling". It's pathetic. So much so that's it's comical.
Since when is investing in public infrastructure such as airports and public transit considered "progressive"?

Even conservative cities such as Salt Lake City and Phoenix have installed light rail systems, added bike lanes/paths, plus (for the purposes of this thread) they have even have upgraded their airports to meet the needs of the 21st century or are in the process of doing so as in the case of Salt Lake City.

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Old 10-20-2017, 06:19 PM
 
519 posts, read 468,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beasley106 View Post
Since when is investing in public infrastructure such as airports and public transit considered "progressive"?

Even conservative cities such as Salt Lake City and Phoenix have installed light rail systems, added bike lanes/paths, plus (for the purposes of this thread) they have even have upgraded their airports to meet the needs of the 21st century or are in the process of doing so as in the case of Salt Lake City.

It's not, and progressive is not the right word for leftist cities, (Baltimore, CA cities, etc) conservative cities to many are conservative cities, regressive cities are left wing controlled cities.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:16 PM
 
605 posts, read 423,655 times
Reputation: 1086
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
It's not, and progressive is not the right word for leftist cities, (Baltimore, CA cities, etc) conservative cities to many are conservative cities, regressive cities are left wing controlled cities.
Which is the main point I was trying to make. It isn't "leftist" to build and improve infrastructure (ie public transit, modernizing existing airports and highways, etc) or to encourage more development/revitalization of existing neighborhoods/encouraging transit orientated development as opposed to just encouraging leapfrog development in suburban green fields that are completely auto orientated, that is just good public policy in general. Anyone who argues otherwise is needless to say an idiot.

Just to put it into perspective Kansas City's MSA population is 2,009,342 according to the 2010 census while Salt Lake City's MSA population is 1,087,873. However Salt Lake City already has three light rail lines that are operational (including one that goes directly from Downtown to the Airport), a commuter rail line that runs about 88 miles long, and an airport (that is already being rebuilt) that is a hub for Delta meaning that you can even fly nonstop to most places in the US and even a select few cities in Canada, Mexico, and even Europe. So if the general population and politicians in Salt Lake City understand the importance of modernizing existing infrastructure, what exactly is Kansas City's excuse?

Last edited by beasley106; 10-20-2017 at 07:28 PM..
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: IN
20,170 posts, read 34,503,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beasley106 View Post
Which is the main point I was trying to make. It isn't "leftist" to build and improve infrastructure (ie public transit, modernizing existing airports and highways, etc) or to encourage more development/revitalization of existing neighborhoods/encouraging transit orientated development as opposed to just encouraging leapfrog development in suburban green fields that are completely auto orientated, that is just good public policy in general. Anyone who argues otherwise is needless to say an idiot.

Just to put it into perspective Kansas City's MSA population is 2,009,342 according to the 2010 census while Salt Lake City's MSA population is 1,087,873. However Salt Lake City already has three light rail lines that are operational (including one that goes directly from Downtown to the Airport), a commuter rail line that runs about 88 miles long, and an airport (that is already being rebuilt) that is a hub for Delta meaning that you can even fly nonstop to most places in the US and even a select few cities in Canada, Mexico, and even Europe. So if the general population and politicians in Salt Lake City understand the importance of modernizing existing infrastructure, what exactly is Kansas City's excuse?
The unusual scenario with some of Salt Lake City's development has much to do with the geography of the Wasatch Front, and the fact that open land for any development on green fields is vanishing at an astonishing rate due to very fast population growth, and an already existing lower density framework of large-scale suburban areas. Combine that with mountains to the east, Great Salt Lake to the west, Utah Lake to the south, and it is good laboratory for alternate transit measures to take off and flourish with light rail. Congestion and overcrowding there will likely get far worse in the coming decades due to limitations to growth via geography already outlined, and extreme population demographics relative to any other area of the US.

Last edited by GraniteStater; 10-21-2017 at 07:28 AM..
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,663 posts, read 1,773,993 times
Reputation: 2210
One, we need to unpack the word "progressive."

It carries two meanings here.

One is the political meaning, which has been associated with, if not left-wing, then at least anti-big-corporate reform since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. Leftists (as opposed to mere liberals) embrace the term in this country to counter the association with Communism often attached to them. (Another reason it's associated with the left is because some of the reforms advocated by the right, largely on the cultural front but sometimes on the economic front too, seek to restore some past glory or other, even if that glory wasn't all that glorious.)

The other is the general meaning of advancing or improving. Most infrastructure investments fit within this definition, and as beasley106 pointed out above, they are not necessarily left- or right-wing in nature.

But:

Two: Hillary Clinton carried Salt Lake County in 2016.

The county that contains Utah's largest city and state capital has tended to be a Democratic island in a Republican sea, not unlike most other urban counties in red states.

A better example of a red (or pink) city that has invested in rail transit would be Oklahoma City.

And perhaps more relevant for comparison purposes, for OKC has long played second fiddle to KC among metropolises of the greater Central Plains. You can now see it clearly gaining on the city if you look in your municipal rear-view mirror.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:41 AM
 
605 posts, read 423,655 times
Reputation: 1086
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post

The county that contains Utah's largest city and state capital has tended to be a Democratic island in a Republican sea, not unlike most other urban counties in red states.

A better example of a red (or pink) city that has invested in rail transit would be Oklahoma City.

And perhaps more relevant for comparison purposes, for OKC has long played second fiddle to KC among metropolises of the greater Central Plains. You can now see it clearly gaining on the city if you look in your municipal rear-view mirror.
Salt Lake City proper is a democratic island but the greater metro area as a whole is still pretty republican for the most part (the only reason why Trump had trouble carrying Salt Lake County was because of independent candidate Evan McMullin who helped split the vote there). That being said though even the very conservative suburbs such as South Jordan and Sandy are embracing transit and encouraging more transit orientated developments to be built such as Daybreak
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:25 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,665 posts, read 5,645,122 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
One, we need to unpack the word "progressive."

It carries two meanings here.

One is the political meaning, which has been associated with, if not left-wing, then at least anti-big-corporate reform since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. Leftists (as opposed to mere liberals) embrace the term in this country to counter the association with Communism often attached to them. (Another reason it's associated with the left is because some of the reforms advocated by the right, largely on the cultural front but sometimes on the economic front too, seek to restore some past glory or other, even if that glory wasn't all that glorious.)

The other is the general meaning of advancing or improving. Most infrastructure investments fit within this definition, and as beasley106 pointed out above, they are not necessarily left- or right-wing in nature.

But:

Two: Hillary Clinton carried Salt Lake County in 2016.

The county that contains Utah's largest city and state capital has tended to be a Democratic island in a Republican sea, not unlike most other urban counties in red states.

A better example of a red (or pink) city that has invested in rail transit would be Oklahoma City.

And perhaps more relevant for comparison purposes, for OKC has long played second fiddle to KC among metropolises of the greater Central Plains. You can now see it clearly gaining on the city if you look in your municipal rear-view mirror.
I hope you're not going to tell me that you believe there is widespread agreement on what constitutes advancing or improving.

Take "transit", for example, which is anything but. There has never been a more effective ghetto maker....and what else would be expected from a 19th century concept that we moved beyond 100+ years ago. The underlying agenda(s) that push "transit" are as left-wing as it gets.

So is the let's get with the 21st century police state program and scrap an airport that was leaps and bounds ahead of most others just a few years ago agenda underlying the KCI new terminal fervor.

Everyone wants progress. But the left's backward and upside-down vision of what constitutes progress can only be seen using a mirror.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:12 PM
 
605 posts, read 423,655 times
Reputation: 1086
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
I hope you're not going to tell me that you believe there is widespread agreement on what constitutes advancing or improving.

Take "transit", for example, which is anything but. There has never been a more effective ghetto maker....and what else would be expected from a 19th century concept that we moved beyond 100+ years ago. The underlying agenda(s) that push "transit" are as left-wing as it gets.

So is the let's get with the 21st century police state program and scrap an airport that was leaps and bounds ahead of most others just a few years ago agenda underlying the KCI new terminal fervor.

Everyone wants progress. But the left's backward and upside-down vision of what constitutes progress can only be seen using a mirror.
Improving transit is equivalent to increasing crime and urban decay? What Kool Aid have you been drinking?

Nearly every city in the US from Washington DC to Salt Lake City and Phoenix has disproved that notion and even very conservative cities such as Provo, Utah and Mesa, Arizona are currently improving their mass transit networks (Provo already has a commuter rail line and is funding a bus rapid transit project and Mesa is extending a light rail line that connects it to Phoenix further in to their city) and encouraging more transit orientated development.

Anyways to get back on topic Kansas City's airport is not only inadequate but also has some severe structural problems.



So meanwhile since Kansas City's airport does not have capacity to add more flights (especially to International destinations like London) due to it's inadequate design regarding it's gate setup but that the existing terminal buildings are in urgent need of repair. Just renovating the existing terminal buildings is equivalent to paying over $5,000 on a repair bill for a used car with a blue book value of only $1,000 (aka a complete waste of money).

Last edited by beasley106; 10-21-2017 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:19 PM
 
519 posts, read 468,620 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by beasley106 View Post
Improving transit is equivalent to increasing crime and urban decay? What Kool Aid have you been drinking?

Nearly every city in the US from Washington DC to Salt Lake City and Phoenix has disproved that notion and even very conservative cities such as Provo, Utah and Mesa, Arizona are currently improving their mass transit networks (Provo already has a commuter rail line and is funding a bus rapid transit project and Mesa is extending a light rail line that connects it to Phoenix further in to their city) and encouraging more transit orientated development.

Anyways to get back on topic Kansas City's airport is not only inadequate but also has some severe structural problems.



So meanwhile since Kansas City's airport does not have capacity to add more flights (especially to International destinations like London) due to it's inadequate design regarding it's gate setup but that the existing terminal buildings are in urgent need of repair. Just renovating the existing terminal buildings is equivalent to paying over $5,000 on a repair bill for a used car with a blue book value of only $1,000 (aka a complete waste of money).
How you compared KCI with a car is the best example given by anyone for why this city/metro needs a new terminal. The problem is if you stood in front of the typical KC, left wing voting citizens they would just have a blank stare because they wouldn't understand nor comprehend the comparison. The movie "Idiocracy" captures perfectly today's voting majority block in urban cities.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:40 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,665 posts, read 5,645,122 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekcmo View Post
How you compared KCI with a car is the best example given by anyone for why this city/metro needs a new terminal. The problem is if you stood in front of the typical KC, left wing voting citizens they would just have a blank stare because they wouldn't understand nor comprehend the comparison. The movie "Idiocracy" captures perfectly today's voting majority block in urban cities.
What that is more an example of is how an unscrupulous dealer sells you a car you don't need by fabricating or grossly exaggerating/inflating repair needs and costs.
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