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View Poll Results: What is Kansas City?
Midwestern 94 61.44%
Transitional from Midwest to West 53 34.64%
Western 6 3.92%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 01-26-2017, 06:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I prefer to describe my native state thus:

"Missouri is the nation in microcosm."

All it lacks is a coastline. It has just about everything else, including our great national conflict, entirely within its borders.
It's Maryland 2.0
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
Missouri is the most southern influenced state in the modern Midwest. You don't see this debate about other Midwest states.
You don't think Indiana and Ohio deal with this? A chunk of Southern Indiana is considered part of the Louisville KY metro area, and is grouped in with the regional term "Kentuckiana". And Cincinnati is often referred to, simultaneously, as the "most northern city in the south" and "the most southern city in the north".

Of course Missouri is unique because it was split in the Civil War. But in modern terms, I don't think it's that different from Indiana or Ohio.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
You don't think Indiana and Ohio deal with this? A chunk of Southern Indiana is considered part of the Louisville KY metro area, and is grouped in with the regional term "Kentuckiana". And Cincinnati is often referred to, simultaneously, as the "most northern city in the south" and "the most southern city in the north".

Of course Missouri is unique because it was split in the Civil War. But in modern terms, I don't think it's that different from Indiana or Ohio.
Except most of the Midwest doesn't agree with you. If you look at national opinion, Ohio and Indiana are considered solid Midwest states with little to no Southern influence. Plus their "Southernish" areas are barely Southern especially in Ohio where Cincinnati influences NKY and not the other way around.

No, Ohio and Indiana are not considered even mildly Southern by most people. Missouri actually had significantly more Confederate support and nowhere in Ohio or Indiana is there a place like the bootheel. Cincinnati is never called a Southern city and even people in Louisville consider it Northern. Cincinnati has little to no traces of Southern culture, accent, or food. Goetta and Macedonian spiced chili don't exactly bring Dixie to mind. Neither does the heavy historical German influence.

As far as Southern Indiana, the part that Louisville metro reaches into is very small. Missouri on the other hand has a much larger Southern influenced area. As much as quarter to half of Missouri is Southern influenced whereas half of Indiana or Ohio isn't. Plus there aren't even Southern accents spoken in Ohio even at the Kentucky border. That region of Kentucky speaks in Midwest accents in the furthest bends of the Ohio River. Indiana is probably more Southern influenced though but I know that it is never considered a part of the South unlike Missouri.

Also can you show me where CIncinnati has been called the most Southern city of the North or the most Northern city of the South? I have heard this designation for Baltimore, Louisville, and even St. Louis. But never for Cincinnati. Curious where you heard this. Historically Cincinnati had more Pennsylvania roots than Southern. People from the Mid-Atlantic settled it and subsequently people from Central Europe. It has a history very similar to many Midwest cities. Chicago probably had more Southern influence in its mainstream culture even.

If you think of famous people from Southern Ohio they are usually very Northern in their mannerisms and speech. I don't know anyone that considers Sarah Jessica Parker, Jerry Springer, or Woody Harrelson to be Southern leaning or even country. Heck Cincinnati people have more Mid-Atlantic and German roots than Appalachian or Southern. Also older folk in Cincinnati don't have a country twang but instead a nasal "Philly-lite" way of talking when they say words like "past" and "laugh". Very "Yankee". The same cannot be said of far Southern Missouri. People there consider themselves Southern where probably close to 0% of anyone in Cincinnati considers themselves Southern.

Go into the Cincinnati forum and see how many people there entertain the notion that they are Southern. The only people who think Cincinnati is the South are Clevelanders who don't realize that most of the Midwest actually isn't like Cleveland. Cincinnati is a true Lower Midwest city and it still has a bit of that Great Lakes Rust Belt feel which doesn't exist in the South. It is very much like a Midwest version of Pittsburgh.

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 01-26-2017 at 07:54 AM..
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I prefer to describe my native state thus:

"Missouri is the nation in microcosm."

All it lacks is a coastline. It has just about everything else, including our great national conflict, entirely within its borders.
However, Missouri overall is more conservative than the entire nation when combined together. When you think about it, a liberal candidate has not "won" Missouri since 1976. I say this because in 1992 and 1996 Perrot took away a lot of votes from Bush and Dole. Bush would have easily won in Missouri in 1992 if it wasn't for Perrot taking away all those votes.

Hillary won the popular vote in the nation but got smashed in Missouri.

I think Florida would be a better fit for this. The state is more moderate than Missouri and is literally split right in the middle between conservative and liberal. Trump won FL by about 2 points, Trump won Missouri by almost 19 points. If the democraps didn't have a toxic candidate like Hillary, Trump would have lost Florida by a couple points. The demographics of this state keep changing as well as people from the northeast keep flooding here and more Hispanics move here.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:57 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 722,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Except most of the Midwest doesn't agree with you. If you look at national opinion, Ohio and Indiana are considered solid Midwest states with little to no Southern influence. Plus their "Southernish" areas are barely Southern especially in Ohio where Cincinnati influences NKY and not the other way around.

No, Ohio and Indiana are not considered even mildly Southern by most people. Missouri actually had significantly more Confederate support and nowhere in Ohio or Indiana is there a place like the bootheel. Cincinnati is never called a Southern city and even people in Louisville consider it Northern. Cincinnati has little to no traces of Southern culture, accent, or food. Goetta and Macedonian spiced chili don't exactly bring Dixie to mind. Neither does the heavy historical German influence.

As far as Southern Indiana, the part that Louisville metro reaches into is very small. Missouri on the other hand has a much larger Southern influenced area. As much as quarter to half of Missouri is Southern influenced whereas half of Indiana or Ohio isn't. Plus there aren't even Southern accents spoken in Ohio even at the Kentucky border. That region of Kentucky speaks in Midwest accents in the furthest bends of the Ohio River. Indiana is probably more Southern influenced though but I know that it is never considered a part of the South unlike Missouri.

Also can you show me where CIncinnati has been called the most Southern city of the North or the most Northern city of the South? I have heard this designation for Baltimore, Louisville, and even St. Louis. But never for Cincinnati. Curious where you heard this. Historically Cincinnati had more Pennsylvania roots than Southern. People from the Mid-Atlantic settled it and subsequently people from Central Europe. It has a history very similar to many Midwest cities. Chicago probably had more Southern influence in its mainstream culture even.

If you think of famous people from Southern Ohio they are usually very Northern in their mannerisms and speech. I don't know anyone that considers Sarah Jessica Parker, Jerry Springer, or Woody Harrelson to be Southern leaning or even country. Heck Cincinnati people have more Mid-Atlantic and German roots than Appalachian or Southern. Also older folk in Cincinnati don't have a country twang but instead a nasal "Philly-lite" way of talking when they say words like "past" and "laugh". Very "Yankee". The same cannot be said of far Southern Missouri. People there consider themselves Southern where probably close to 0% of anyone in Cincinnati considers themselves Southern.

Go into the Cincinnati forum and see how many people there entertain the notion that they are Southern. The only people who think Cincinnati is the South are Clevelanders who don't realize that most of the Midwest actually isn't like Cleveland. Cincinnati is a true Lower Midwest city and it still has a bit of that Great Lakes Rust Belt feel which doesn't exist in the South. It is very much like a Midwest version of Pittsburgh.
I totally agree about what you just said. There is a post in one of the other forums on here that has a poll about the most southern Midwest state and Missouri by a huge margin won it and most posters agree.

Yes southern Indiana and southern IL have southern influence but it isn't like anywhere in the Bootheel of Missouri or the southern 25 percent of the state that is truly southern and located in the south and has no Midwestern traits in it.

You won't find that in IL or southern IN except for a few places right along the Ohio River maybe like Evansville and Cairo IL but that is so minuet that it isn't much of a factor. Places in Southern IN and southern OH that have southern influence is like in Missouri from US 50 on down to about 50 miles from the AR border that have a mixture of Midwest and southern traits like Farmington, Rolla, Lebanon, Nevada Missouri. Plus southern Baptist make up a big part of the religion population in Missouri and the southern Dialect range covers 25-30 percent of Missouri according to the University of PA study. This is not shown for the other Midwestern states. Also it was admitted by Confederate Congress and was a slave state.

Thirty Five Eight website has a poll on what states are southern map and Missouri sticks out compared to Ohio, IN, KS, etc and ranks the same with Ok, WV.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/...-in-the-south/
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Old 01-26-2017, 02:48 PM
 
6,299 posts, read 13,194,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Except most of the Midwest doesn't agree with you. If you look at national opinion, Ohio and Indiana are considered solid Midwest states with little to no Southern influence. Plus their "Southernish" areas are barely Southern especially in Ohio where Cincinnati influences NKY and not the other way around.

No, Ohio and Indiana are not considered even mildly Southern by most people. Missouri actually had significantly more Confederate support and nowhere in Ohio or Indiana is there a place like the bootheel. Cincinnati is never called a Southern city and even people in Louisville consider it Northern. Cincinnati has little to no traces of Southern culture, accent, or food. Goetta and Macedonian spiced chili don't exactly bring Dixie to mind. Neither does the heavy historical German influence.

As far as Southern Indiana, the part that Louisville metro reaches into is very small. Missouri on the other hand has a much larger Southern influenced area. As much as quarter to half of Missouri is Southern influenced whereas half of Indiana or Ohio isn't. Plus there aren't even Southern accents spoken in Ohio even at the Kentucky border. That region of Kentucky speaks in Midwest accents in the furthest bends of the Ohio River. Indiana is probably more Southern influenced though but I know that it is never considered a part of the South unlike Missouri.

Also can you show me where CIncinnati has been called the most Southern city of the North or the most Northern city of the South? I have heard this designation for Baltimore, Louisville, and even St. Louis. But never for Cincinnati. Curious where you heard this. Historically Cincinnati had more Pennsylvania roots than Southern. People from the Mid-Atlantic settled it and subsequently people from Central Europe. It has a history very similar to many Midwest cities. Chicago probably had more Southern influence in its mainstream culture even.

If you think of famous people from Southern Ohio they are usually very Northern in their mannerisms and speech. I don't know anyone that considers Sarah Jessica Parker, Jerry Springer, or Woody Harrelson to be Southern leaning or even country. Heck Cincinnati people have more Mid-Atlantic and German roots than Appalachian or Southern. Also older folk in Cincinnati don't have a country twang but instead a nasal "Philly-lite" way of talking when they say words like "past" and "laugh". Very "Yankee". The same cannot be said of far Southern Missouri. People there consider themselves Southern where probably close to 0% of anyone in Cincinnati considers themselves Southern.

Go into the Cincinnati forum and see how many people there entertain the notion that they are Southern. The only people who think Cincinnati is the South are Clevelanders who don't realize that most of the Midwest actually isn't like Cleveland. Cincinnati is a true Lower Midwest city and it still has a bit of that Great Lakes Rust Belt feel which doesn't exist in the South. It is very much like a Midwest version of Pittsburgh.

Eddie....S Indiana suburbs make up nearly 25% of Louisville metro area....hardly "small."

Kansas City is 100% Midwest. Nothing feels western about it
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:04 PM
 
1,298 posts, read 985,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Except most of the Midwest doesn't agree with you. If you look at national opinion, Ohio and Indiana are considered solid Midwest states with little to no Southern influence. Plus their "Southernish" areas are barely Southern especially in Ohio where Cincinnati influences NKY and not the other way around.

No, Ohio and Indiana are not considered even mildly Southern by most people. Missouri actually had significantly more Confederate support and nowhere in Ohio or Indiana is there a place like the bootheel. Cincinnati is never called a Southern city and even people in Louisville consider it Northern. Cincinnati has little to no traces of Southern culture, accent, or food. Goetta and Macedonian spiced chili don't exactly bring Dixie to mind. Neither does the heavy historical German influence.

As far as Southern Indiana, the part that Louisville metro reaches into is very small. Missouri on the other hand has a much larger Southern influenced area. As much as quarter to half of Missouri is Southern influenced whereas half of Indiana or Ohio isn't. Plus there aren't even Southern accents spoken in Ohio even at the Kentucky border. That region of Kentucky speaks in Midwest accents in the furthest bends of the Ohio River. Indiana is probably more Southern influenced though but I know that it is never considered a part of the South unlike Missouri.

Also can you show me where CIncinnati has been called the most Southern city of the North or the most Northern city of the South? I have heard this designation for Baltimore, Louisville, and even St. Louis. But never for Cincinnati. Curious where you heard this. Historically Cincinnati had more Pennsylvania roots than Southern. People from the Mid-Atlantic settled it and subsequently people from Central Europe. It has a history very similar to many Midwest cities. Chicago probably had more Southern influence in its mainstream culture even.

If you think of famous people from Southern Ohio they are usually very Northern in their mannerisms and speech. I don't know anyone that considers Sarah Jessica Parker, Jerry Springer, or Woody Harrelson to be Southern leaning or even country. Heck Cincinnati people have more Mid-Atlantic and German roots than Appalachian or Southern. Also older folk in Cincinnati don't have a country twang but instead a nasal "Philly-lite" way of talking when they say words like "past" and "laugh". Very "Yankee". The same cannot be said of far Southern Missouri. People there consider themselves Southern where probably close to 0% of anyone in Cincinnati considers themselves Southern.

Go into the Cincinnati forum and see how many people there entertain the notion that they are Southern. The only people who think Cincinnati is the South are Clevelanders who don't realize that most of the Midwest actually isn't like Cleveland. Cincinnati is a true Lower Midwest city and it still has a bit of that Great Lakes Rust Belt feel which doesn't exist in the South. It is very much like a Midwest version of Pittsburgh.
There's no way I could respond to all of this. But I will just ask you if you think Covington Kentucky is considered "south". If so, it's pretty crazy to think that on one side of the Ohio river you have Cincinnati, which is not even a little bit southern, and on the other side of the river is Covington, which is in the south. No cultural boundary is ever that stark. Either Cincinnati is a little bit southern, or Covington is not southern at all. And it would be hard to claim that any part of Kentucky is not in the south.
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
I totally agree about what you just said. There is a post in one of the other forums on here that has a poll about the most southern Midwest state and Missouri by a huge margin won it and most posters agree.

Yes southern Indiana and southern IL have southern influence but it isn't like anywhere in the Bootheel of Missouri or the southern 25 percent of the state that is truly southern and located in the south and has no Midwestern traits in it.

You won't find that in IL or southern IN except for a few places right along the Ohio River maybe like Evansville and Cairo IL but that is so minuet that it isn't much of a factor. Places in Southern IN and southern OH that have southern influence is like in Missouri from US 50 on down to about 50 miles from the AR border that have a mixture of Midwest and southern traits like Farmington, Rolla, Lebanon, Nevada Missouri. Plus southern Baptist make up a big part of the religion population in Missouri and the southern Dialect range covers 25-30 percent of Missouri according to the University of PA study. This is not shown for the other Midwestern states. Also it was admitted by Confederate Congress and was a slave state.

Thirty Five Eight website has a poll on what states are southern map and Missouri sticks out compared to Ohio, IN, KS, etc and ranks the same with Ok, WV.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/...-in-the-south/
Evansville leans less more Midwestern than Southern. Really the only Southern lite area is outside Louisville. Evansville and the tri- state area are much more Midwestern.

Now Cincinnati did experience an influx of Appalachian transplants but they were absorbed and didn't really make a significant impact on the culture as a whole. Cincinnati probably has more similarities with other similar Midwest cities than it does with any Southern city. Indianapolis received an Appalachian influx as well but it certainly did NOT make Indy a Southern or even diet Southern city like Louisville. I honestly have never heard Indiana or much less Ohio referred to as Southern by anyone other than Chicagoans and Clevelanders who have never left their home state.
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Eddie....S Indiana suburbs make up nearly 25% of Louisville metro area....hardly "small."

Kansas City is 100% Midwest. Nothing feels western about it
All because parts of IN are in Louisville metro doesn't mean it's fully southern. It's pretty southern but I'd still consider it the transition zone.

Missouri is the only Midwest state that is debatable of how southern it is. Oklahoma as well but more people consider that the south even though it has a lot of Midwest and great plains influence.

Also southern Indiana counties don't have as heavy of a southern Baptist population as most of rural Missouri has.

Missouri I would consider a border state since 25 percent is southern, 25 percent a mix. Indiana never has fit this.

Missouri is a partially southern state, Indiana is not but it is the next most southern influenced state excluding Missouri. Kansas or Illinois I would put after Indiana. Southern IL has a chunk of the state that is in the transition zone, more so than Ohio has.
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Old 01-26-2017, 03:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
There's no way I could respond to all of this. But I will just ask you if you think Covington Kentucky is considered "south". If so, it's pretty crazy to think that on one side of the Ohio river you have Cincinnati, which is not even a little bit southern, and on the other side of the river is Covington, which is in the south. No cultural boundary is ever that stark. Either Cincinnati is a little bit southern, or Covington is not southern at all. And it would be hard to claim that any part of Kentucky is not in the south.
Except if you venture into the Kentucky forum there is an overwhelming belief that Northern Kentucky is really more a cultural extension of Ohio than it is of Kentucky.

Besides, since when do the SUBURBS influence the city? You're the same guy who said that Indiana is Southern lite because it borders Louisville yet claim that Northern Kentucky is Southern because it borders a Northern city. Ooooooookay
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