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View Poll Results: What is Kansas City?
Midwestern 94 61.44%
Transitional from Midwest to West 53 34.64%
Western 6 3.92%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-18-2017, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Noo Yawk, Noo Yawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
As discussed here before, the census classifications don't mean much. They call MD and DE southern states when they're NOT southern states. It's way too broad.
I did not cite it as proof of anything. Just thought it an interesting aspect of the topic.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
Also Texas is a huge state that covers different regions of the country. To a smaller extent Missouri has this problem too. However Texas and Missouri politically both resemble modern southern states though. Same mentality. Missouri is actually more republican in their house and state senate than Texas is currently. The super majorities are pretty massive in the MO house and will be back to 25 in MO come special election in the senate.
Maryland also has a larger urbanized areas with higher Black concentrations. Blacks are plurality in Maryland but I don't believe they are in Texas.

Also, isn't it interesting to note that Blacks are a plurality on Kansas City? That's not a very Western trait whatsoever and does tie in to KC's Southern influence.
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Old 03-18-2017, 09:17 PM
 
Location: South Austin, 78745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkotronics View Post
Interestingly, singer Sheryl Crow is from Kennett, MO, in the state's bootheel, and she tends to have Southern roots in her music. She sings with a lot of heart and soul in her music, huh? Great music.
Go to YouTube and look for Sheryl Crown and Emmylou Harris video, "Pale Blue Eyes" at one of Sheryl Crow's concerts. It's absolutely Heavenly. It's one of those magical musical moments.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Maryland also has a larger urbanized areas with higher Black concentrations. Blacks are plurality in Maryland but I don't believe they are in Texas.

Also, isn't it interesting to note that Blacks are a plurality on Kansas City? That's not a very Western trait whatsoever and does tie in to KC's Southern influence.
Um, in neither Maryland nor Kansas City are blacks a plurality.

A "plurality" is where one group makes up the largest portion of a whole but less than 50 percent.

Maryland's population is 29 percent black; Kansas City's, 30 percent. (Both figures 2010 Census data.) In both cases, whites make up a majority of the population.

In Philadelphia, where I live now, whites made up a plurality of the population in 2010: 45 vs. 43.2 for blacks.

As for urbanized areas, Texas has more by far than Maryland.

Maryland has one large city all to itself - Baltimore - and also contains about half the suburbs of Washington, DC.

Texas has Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Amarillo and El Paso, plus the smaller cities of Lubbock, Beaumont, Waco and Wichita Falls.

In terms of race and ethnicity, Texas definitely isn't "Southern" - Hispanics are the largest minority group in the state, accounting for 37 percent of its population, while blacks make up 11 percent. (Hispanics, remember, can be of any race, though.)
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:26 AM
 
4,801 posts, read 3,453,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Um, in neither Maryland nor Kansas City are blacks a plurality.

A "plurality" is where one group makes up the largest portion of a whole but less than 50 percent.
I thought Black was the largest ancestry group in KC??

Quote:
Maryland's population is 29 percent black; Kansas City's, 30 percent. (Both figures 2010 Census data.) In both cases, whites make up a majority of the population.
But would a majority cancel out a plurality?

Quote:
As for urbanized areas, Texas has more by far than Maryland.
I was saying Maryland has more urbanized BLACK areas.

Quote:
Texas has Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Amarillo and El Paso, plus the smaller cities of Lubbock, Beaumont, Waco and Wichita Falls.

In terms of race and ethnicity, Texas definitely isn't "Southern" - Hispanics are the largest minority group in the state, accounting for 37 percent of its population, while blacks make up 11 percent. (Hispanics, remember, can be of any race, though.)
My original comment was to imply that the reason Maryland isn't a Red State is because of the fact it's significant Black population is concentrated in cities and also that the state itself is quite urbanized so "Red State" would be an impossibility.

Now again correct me if I am wrong but if Blacks are the largest ANCESTRY group on Maryland and KC, wouldn't that make Black ancestry a plurality?

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 03-19-2017 at 09:43 AM..
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
5,505 posts, read 5,172,985 times
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Go to YouTube and look for Sheryl Crown and Emmylou Harris video, "Pale Blue Eyes" at one of Sheryl Crow's concerts. It's absolutely Heavenly. It's one of those magical musical moments.

I'm going there right now ta listen to watch this video, Ivory Lee Spurlock.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
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Go to YouTube and look for Sheryl Crown and Emmylou Harris video, "Pale Blue Eyes" at one of Sheryl Crow's concerts. It's absolutely Heavenly. It's one of those magical musical moments.

Oh, man, that is one beautiful duet, Ivory Lee Spurlock. Absolutely gorgeous tune!
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
I thought Black was the largest ancestry group in KC??



But would a majority cancel out a plurality?



I was saying Maryland has more urbanized BLACK areas.



My original comment was to imply that the reason Maryland isn't a Red State is because of the fact it's significant Black population is concentrated in cities and also that the state itself is quite urbanized so "Red State" would be an impossibility.

Now again correct me if I am wrong but if Blacks are the largest ANCESTRY group on Maryland and KC, wouldn't that make Black ancestry a plurality?
The answer to your second question is Yes and the answer to your last question is No. (I'm not sure what you mean by "ancestry group." Just as whites are not of one uniform ethnic stock, neither are blacks; the peoples of Africa comprise scores of distinct ethnic groups, and none of the descendants of slaves in this country are of 100% African origin.)

In a population, you only have a "plurality" where no one group accounts for more than 50 percent of the population. In that case, the group that constitutes the largest share of the population is referred to as a "plurality." My Philadelphia figures are an example of that: no one racial or ethnic group accounts for more than 50 percent of the city's population, but there are more whites in the city than there are members of any other single racial or ethnic group. Therefore, whites make up a plurality of the city.

If a single group comprises more than 50 percent of the population, as whites do in both Maryland and Kansas City, that group is the majority. In an election where only one candidate can win, the candidate receiving the majority of votes wins, unless there's no majority, in which case the candidate receiving the plurality of votes wins. So a majority cancels out a plurality.

Gotcha on urbanized areas with non-trivial black populations. Given that blacks make up only 11 percent of Texas' population as opposed to 29 percent of Maryland's, this would make sense. Furthermore, I know from personal experience that many of those African-American Texans live not in the state's big cities but in the smaller cities and towns of the East Texas pinelands (like my grandmother's relatives in Lufkin), so there's likely to be less black concentration in those cities.

However: blacks do make up a sizable minority of the population of Texas' largest cities: 20 percent in Fort Worth, 25 in Dallas, 23.7 in Houston. But to underscore your point, blacks make up a majority - 63.7 percent - of the population of Maryland's largest city, Baltimore, and Prince George's County in the Washington suburbs is likewise majority black now (64.6 percent). They used to make up an even larger percentage of the population of the District of Columbia (north of 70 percent in the 1970s, when Washingtonian George Clinton and his funk band Parliament released the classic album "Chocolate City" - the title song is about their hometown), but that ratio has fallen dramatically since 1990: blacks now make up just half the population of that city and will likely become a plurality rather than a majority by the next Census.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:21 PM
 
4,801 posts, read 3,453,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
The answer to your second question is Yes and the answer to your last question is No. (I'm not sure what you mean by "ancestry group." Just as whites are not of one uniform ethnic stock, neither are blacks; the peoples of Africa comprise scores of distinct ethnic groups, and none of the descendants of slaves in this country are of 100% African origin.)

In a population, you only have a "plurality" where no one group accounts for more than 50 percent of the population. In that case, the group that constitutes the largest share of the population is referred to as a "plurality." My Philadelphia figures are an example of that: no one racial or ethnic group accounts for more than 50 percent of the city's population, but there are more whites in the city than there are members of any other single racial or ethnic group. Therefore, whites make up a plurality of the city.

If a single group comprises more than 50 percent of the population, as whites do in both Maryland and Kansas City, that group is the majority. In an election where only one candidate can win, the candidate receiving the majority of votes wins, unless there's no majority, in which case the candidate receiving the plurality of votes wins. So a majority cancels out a plurality.

Gotcha on urbanized areas with non-trivial black populations. Given that blacks make up only 11 percent of Texas' population as opposed to 29 percent of Maryland's, this would make sense. Furthermore, I know from personal experience that many of those African-American Texans live not in the state's big cities but in the smaller cities and towns of the East Texas pinelands (like my grandmother's relatives in Lufkin), so there's likely to be less black concentration in those cities.

However: blacks do make up a sizable minority of the population of Texas' largest cities: 20 percent in Fort Worth, 25 in Dallas, 23.7 in Houston. But to underscore your point, blacks make up a majority - 63.7 percent - of the population of Maryland's largest city, Baltimore, and Prince George's County in the Washington suburbs is likewise majority black now (64.6 percent). They used to make up an even larger percentage of the population of the District of Columbia (north of 70 percent in the 1970s, when Washingtonian George Clinton and his funk band Parliament released the classic album "Chocolate City" - the title song is about their hometown), but that ratio has fallen dramatically since 1990: blacks now make up just half the population of that city and will likely become a plurality rather than a majority by the next Census.
I was referring to this when I said largest ancestry group:

This map shows which ethnicities have the largest ancestry in U.S. counties.

Of course Blacks can come from many places and aren't fully African, etc. This is just according to what people self identify. And the largest group of people that self identify as Black happens to be the case in both Maryland and KC.

Now again, considering that the most populous counties of MD are majority Black or at least a plurality, it would explain how MD is not and never will be a Red State. In the majority White counties it can lean either Purple or Red, and in German majority counties it goes Red. But, these aren't heavily populated thus can't make a huge difference. Though it noticeable that between Baltimore City and Baltimore County, when you account for the smaller Black percentage in the suburbs, that the Blue politics aren't as pronounced. It follows that for a "Northeastern" state, there certainly happen to be more White Republicans as a percentage even if they aren't the majority.

Now back to KC, if you look at the county maps and see how frequent Blacks are the largest ancestry group in Western states, it isn't very often. There are lots of things the West is known for but significant Black influence is not one of them.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,672 posts, read 1,780,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
I was referring to this when I said largest ancestry group:

This map shows which ethnicities have the largest ancestry in U.S. counties.

Of course Blacks can come from many places and aren't fully African, etc. This is just according to what people self identify. And the largest group of people that self identify as Black happens to be the case in both Maryland and KC.

Now again, considering that the most populous counties of MD are majority Black or at least a plurality, it would explain how MD is not and never will be a Red State. In the majority White counties it can lean either Purple or Red, and in German majority counties it goes Red. But, these aren't heavily populated thus can't make a huge difference. Though it noticeable that between Baltimore City and Baltimore County, when you account for the smaller Black percentage in the suburbs, that the Blue politics aren't as pronounced. It follows that for a "Northeastern" state, there certainly happen to be more White Republicans as a percentage even if they aren't the majority.

Now back to KC, if you look at the county maps and see how frequent Blacks are the largest ancestry group in Western states, it isn't very often. There are lots of things the West is known for but significant Black influence is not one of them.
Okay, now what you said upthread makes a lot more sense.

You were talking "ethnicity," and I was talking race. "White" isn't an ethnicity, while "African American" is at once an ethnicity and a race in the American taxonomy, the term having replaced "black" as a description of the racial group.*

And when you break it down by ethnicity, you were using the term "plurality" correctly. African-Americans are the single largest ethnic group of origin in much of the South, where no one ethnic group accounts for the ancestry of a majority of the population in most counties.

But take a look at that county map again. African-Americans are the largest single ethnic group in only one of the 15 counties that currently comprise the Kansas City MSA: Jackson, the most populous one and the one that contains all of the pre-World War II City of Kansas City, Mo., save for Harlem. Not even in Wyandotte, the county with the second-largest percentage of residents who are of African descent, is this the case.

And Kansas City only occupies part of Jackson County, and since World War II it has extended into parts of three other counties - Clay, Platte, and Cass - as well. Given that the single largest ancestry group in the other 14 counties is German, and racially speaking, Germans are white, there's a better than even chance that people of German ancestry make up the plurality of Kansas City residents. That's DEFINITELY not "Southern" at all: where African-Americans don't make up the plurality, "Americans" do in all the rest of both the Deep South and the Upper South ("Greater Appalachia"), except for the Tidewater region, where the Germans take over again, and southern Louisiana, which is indeed "New France," ancestrally speaking.

(Actuallly, the extent to which German is the single largest ancestry group surprises me; I didn't think that many of them had emigrated or that they had propagated so widely in the country.)

The number of counties where "American" is listed as the largest ancestry group says a lot to me about the cultural attitudes of white Southerners too. IMO, the only people who can rightfully claim that as their ancestry are those who were already here when [Columbus landed on Hispaniola | the Pilgrims arrived at first Provincetown then Plymouth Rock | the Spaniards made their way north through Mexico and up into Alta California]. The rest of us are ALL descended from immigrants from somewhere in Europe or Africa (or to a lesser extent Asia and the Middle East).

*Edited to add: And in light of the growing number of immigrants to the United States from sub-Saharan Africa, it's going to become an increasingly confusing term, for the African immigrants have none of the cultural baggage the descendants of the slaves carry with them and function in American society more like their other fellow immigrants do - a source of minor friction between the two groups. Given where those African immigrants are settling, it probably won't be a source of discomfort for them, for they're not settling yet in the parts of the country where all the white people might assume anyone they see with dark skin is a descendant of a slave.
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