Is Kansas City a Western city? (Rolla, Ozark: motel, farms, retiring)

[elkotronics]

Baby back ribs? 'Scuse me?

Which local Q joints serve those?

No one I know of - just tossin' junk out on the basketball court ta get a reaction. I just like ta see what people write in here in order ta learn more about the city I'm in...KC seems extremely Midwestern ta me.

[MarketStEl]

A friend recently shared this 2015 article from Business Insider, and the article and the book described in it seem to me relevant to this discussion:

This map shows the US has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures | Business Insider

The book,"American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America," is an updating and refinement of Joel Garreau's 1981 book "The Nine Nations of North America." In that book, Kansas City was identified as the capital of the nation called "The Breadbasket," which, he said, was "the nation that worked the best."

In this one, both my forever hometown of Kansas City and my adopted one of Philadelphia lie in "The Midlands," a territory that takes in the entire Missouri River valley (and that of the Red River further north), northeast and southwest Kansas, northwest Oklahoma and almost all of Iowa before extending in a narrow band through northern Illinois (excluding Chicago, which is part of "Yankeedom"), Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania before expanding to take in Southeastern Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey. The Quakers who settled those latter two regions, the book's author asserts, had a profound cultural influence on this region, even in the areas where they didn't settle in large numbers.

Both of Missouri's large metropolises lie in this nation - but both are also close to "Greater Appalachia." That nation begins just south of metropolitan Kansas City, and metro St. Louis is at the tip of the peninsula that takes the Midlands down the Missouri towards it; Greater Appalachia surrounds that city entirely except to its west. The Ohio, which begins at Pittsburgh, is the principal river in this nation's eastern half, and it extends across southern Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri before heading into southeast Kansas, eastern Oklahoma and northern and central Texas. The western parts of Virginia and North Carolina, all of Kentucky and Tennessee, and extreme northern Alabama and Georgia also lie in this nation.

I suspect that those who say Kansas City and St. Louis have some "Southern" in them are referring to the spillover from this next-door nation, which was settled by Scottish and Irish outcasts.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

A friend recently shared this 2015 article from Business Insider, and the article and the book described in it seem to me relevant to this discussion:

This map shows the US has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures | Business Insider

The book,"American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America," is an updating and refinement of Joel Garreau's 1981 book "The Nine Nations of North America." In that book, Kansas City was identified as the capital of the nation called "The Breadbasket," which, he said, was "the nation that worked the best."

In this one, both my forever hometown of Kansas City and my adopted one of Philadelphia lie in "The Midlands," a territory that takes in the entire Missouri River valley (and that of the Red River further north), northeast and southwest Kansas, northwest Oklahoma and almost all of Iowa before extending in a narrow band through northern Illinois (excluding Chicago, which is part of "Yankeedom"), Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania before expanding to take in Southeastern Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey. The Quakers who settled those latter two regions, the book's author asserts, had a profound cultural influence on this region, even in the areas where they didn't settle in large numbers.

Both of Missouri's large metropolises lie in this nation - but both are also close to "Greater Appalachia." That nation begins just south of metropolitan Kansas City, and metro St. Louis is at the tip of the peninsula that takes the Midlands down the Missouri towards it; Greater Appalachia surrounds that city entirely except to its west. The Ohio, which begins at Pittsburgh, is the principal river in this nation's eastern half, and it extends across southern Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri before heading into southeast Kansas, eastern Oklahoma and northern and central Texas. The western parts of Virginia and North Carolina, all of Kentucky and Tennessee, and extreme northern Alabama and Georgia also lie in this nation.

I suspect that those who say Kansas City and St. Louis have some "Southern" in them are referring to the spillover from this next-door nation, which was settled by Scottish and Irish outcasts.

Of course the way some people view it, there is no way Midlands can include Philadelphia.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

A friend recently shared this 2015 article from Business Insider, and the article and the book described in it seem to me relevant to this discussion:

This map shows the US has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures | Business Insider

The book,"American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America," is an updating and refinement of Joel Garreau's 1981 book "The Nine Nations of North America." In that book, Kansas City was identified as the capital of the nation called "The Breadbasket," which, he said, was "the nation that worked the best."

In this one, both my forever hometown of Kansas City and my adopted one of Philadelphia lie in "The Midlands," a territory that takes in the entire Missouri River valley (and that of the Red River further north), northeast and southwest Kansas, northwest Oklahoma and almost all of Iowa before extending in a narrow band through northern Illinois (excluding Chicago, which is part of "Yankeedom"), Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania before expanding to take in Southeastern Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey. The Quakers who settled those latter two regions, the book's author asserts, had a profound cultural influence on this region, even in the areas where they didn't settle in large numbers.

Both of Missouri's large metropolises lie in this nation - but both are also close to "Greater Appalachia." That nation begins just south of metropolitan Kansas City, and metro St. Louis is at the tip of the peninsula that takes the Midlands down the Missouri towards it; Greater Appalachia surrounds that city entirely except to its west. The Ohio, which begins at Pittsburgh, is the principal river in this nation's eastern half, and it extends across southern Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri before heading into southeast Kansas, eastern Oklahoma and northern and central Texas. The western parts of Virginia and North Carolina, all of Kentucky and Tennessee, and extreme northern Alabama and Georgia also lie in this nation.

I suspect that those who say Kansas City and St. Louis have some "Southern" in them are referring to the spillover from this next-door nation, which was settled by Scottish and Irish outcasts.

St. Louis today isn't a southern city and I wouldn't even quite put it in the transition zone which starts very gradually just outside of town to the south and to the west. I've said maybe it still has 10 percent left because there are some traces and hints left of it, but not enough southern influence to put it in the transition zone which starts just outside of St. Louis. yes it has some traces of southern influence left but it's just not enough to consider it a city in the transition zone. Once you get just outside of stl the transition zone slowly begins.

If you're talking about the entire St. Louis metro that is made up of many counties, then yes the southern half of the metro IS in the transition zone but St. Louis the city/county isn't.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

St. Louis today isn't a southern city and I wouldn't even quite put it in the transition zone which starts very gradually just outside of town to the south and to the west. I've said maybe it still has 10 percent left because there are some traces and hints left of it, but not enough southern influence to put it in the transition zone which starts just outside of St. Louis. yes it has some traces of southern influence left but it's just not enough to consider it a city in the transition zone. Once you get just outside of stl the transition zone slowly begins.

If you're talking about the entire St. Louis metro that is made up of many counties, then yes the southern half of the metro IS in the transition zone but St. Louis the city/county isn't.

If you look at the map that accompanied that article, you might note that the "nations" are county-based - which means that there may be some counties that lie within a Census Bureau-designated CSA or MSA centered on a city in one "nation" that are themselves in another. Looks like Metro St. Louis may be an excellent example of this based on the map.

Over where I now live, I've long found Delaware rather interesting in that regard; it was a slave state, and its lower counties are decidedly different in character and culture from the northernmost one (the state has three: urbanized New Castle, home to the state's largest city, Wilmington; semi-urban Kent, where the state capital of Dover is located; and more rural Sussex, home to the state's beach resorts; the area below Dover is sometimes derisively referred to as "Slower Delaware"). But I don't find much that I'd call "Southern" about Delaware, not even the accents; like Maryland, with which it shares the peninsula known as Delmarva (the "va" being Virginia at its southern tip), it seems to me more not-Southern than Southern - there are places in extreme southern New Jersey that feel more like the Deep South to me than anywhere I've been in Delaware. Edited to add: All of the Delmarva Peninsula, and two of Delaware's three counties (New Castle is the exception), are in the nation this guy calls "Tidewater." Eastern Virginia is its heartland, though he says it's "in decline because of the expanding Federal halo around DC and Norfolk."

[JimSalamoni]

Midewestern in my opinion. Especially the downtown KCMO areas.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

If you look at the map that accompanied that article, you might note that the "nations" are county-based - which means that there may be some counties that lie within a Census Bureau-designated CSA or MSA centered on a city in one "nation" that are themselves in another. Looks like Metro St. Louis may be an excellent example of this based on the map.

Over where I now live, I've long found Delaware rather interesting in that regard; it was a slave state, and its lower counties are decidedly different in character and culture from the northernmost one (the state has three: urbanized New Castle, home to the state's largest city, Wilmington; semi-urban Kent, where the state capital of Dover is located; and more rural Sussex, home to the state's beach resorts; the area below Dover is sometimes derisively referred to as "Slower Delaware"). But I don't find much that I'd call "Southern" about Delaware, not even the accents; like Maryland, with which it shares the peninsula known as Delmarva (the "va" being Virginia at its southern tip), it seems to me more not-Southern than Southern - there are places in extreme southern New Jersey that feel more like the Deep South to me than anywhere I've been in Delaware. Edited to add: All of the Delmarva Peninsula, and two of Delaware's three counties (New Castle is the exception), are in the nation this guy calls "Tidewater." Eastern Virginia is its heartland, though he says it's "in decline because of the expanding Federal halo around DC and Norfolk."

I don't think he saw that St. Louis is considered Midland just like Kansas City. The West begins about 300 miles or so west of KC.

[elkotronics]

I don't think he saw that St. Louis is considered Midland just like Kansas City. The West begins about 300 miles or so west of KC.

I agree - the west starts in Colorado in the big city of Denver, CO. Period.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by elkotronics

I don't think he saw that St. Louis is considered Midland just like Kansas City. The West begins about 300 miles or so west of KC.

I agree - the west starts in Colorado in the big city of Denver, CO. Period.

I also include the western sections of the High Plains as part of the western US as well. The western Dakotas west of the Missouri river, western Nebraska, and western Kansas. They don't have anything in common with the Midwest, and certainly not the eastern US.

[elkotronics]

I also include the western sections of the High Plains as part of the western US as well. The western Dakotas west of the Missouri river, western Nebraska, and western Kansas. They don't have anything in common with the Midwest, and certainly not the eastern US.

Yes, I pretty much agree about the cities of Lawrence and Manhattan, KS, and the like. There isn't much else west of Manhattan in Kansas mentionable. Denver begins the western U.S. to me.