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Old 04-16-2017, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,661 posts, read 1,770,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
I agree about adding to the skyline. Frankly, I grew up in the Bay Area and until about 2006, the skyline of SF never really changed for years. A few high rises went up in the 1990s, but the skyline was still defined by 500' boxes that were built in the late 60s to late 80s. Thus, at times we can't judge the vitality of a city purely on the amount of high rises that exist.
Case in point: Washington, DC, where there is a height limit of about 150 feet for all buildings, with two exceptions grandfathered in: the U.S. Capitol and the 555-foot-high Washington Monument.
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Old 04-16-2017, 08:04 PM
 
112 posts, read 61,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA650 View Post
I agree about adding to the skyline. Frankly, I grew up in the Bay Area and until about 2006, the skyline of SF never really changed for years. A few high rises went up in the 1990s, but the skyline was still defined by 500' boxes that were built in the late 60s to late 80s. Thus, at times we can't judge the vitality of a city purely on the amount of high rises that exist.
Believe me, I really do realize that skyscrapers don't make a city. Phoenix, for example, is a huge city without much of a downtown to speak of. Still, I'd like to see KC add to its skyline. And when I see smaller cities from around the Midwest adding to their skylines, it just leaves me feeling that KC ought to be able to do the same thing. I'd like to see KC demonstrate some collective ambition by thinking big.
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:46 PM
 
60 posts, read 33,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DallastoChicagotoKC View Post
Believe me, I really do realize that skyscrapers don't make a city. Phoenix, for example, is a huge city without much of a downtown to speak of. Still, I'd like to see KC add to its skyline. And when I see smaller cities from around the Midwest adding to their skylines, it just leaves me feeling that KC ought to be able to do the same thing. I'd like to see KC demonstrate some collective ambition by thinking big.

While I certainly agree with you on your points, I have to say that I'm very impressed with the relentless effort that has been made to purchase and renovate the older and smaller buildings in the CBD over the last 20 years. The fact that very few empty buildings remain downtown means that it has an appeal that people desire to want to go live and work there. Even some of the more modern buildings (built in the 60s) such as the Commerce Tower, 920 Main, and 1125 Grand are being repurposed into residential or multiuse facilities.

What does concern me, however, is that fewer larger corporations lack the desire to want to be downtown. Losing AMC to Leawood, Shook Hardy and Bacon going to Crown Center, (although that happened prior to the Sprint Center and P&L district going up), Cerner's desire to stay in the suburbs, (although, I'm glad they took over the area once occupied by the defunct Bannister Mall), The Federal Reserve moving out, although there was no viable place to put it there, considering their security requirements.

As I've made no secret of here, I'm not crazy about the updated design of the new Hyatt Convention Center Hotel, but I'm happy that it's finally about to get built. Seeing the Light towers going up is encouraging that perhaps we'll get an eventual 500-plus foot residential tower in the next decade, and with the east side of the loop still vacant, I'm confident that we'll get interest sparked in a plan for something to go up over there as well.

For the most part though, I'm glad to see Kansas City do a complete 180 compared to what it looked like nearly 30 years ago, when it was largely dying, and undesirable to live or work there.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,661 posts, read 1,770,490 times
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There's another thread in this forum where people were weighing the relative profile height of Kansas City and St. Louis beyond the Midwest. I think the dominant opinion was that the City of Fountains remained a regional draw that didn't garner much notice once you got, say, 500 miles away from it.

At least on the food front, I strongly beg to differ now.

I can now find both store and national brand "Kansas City" barbecue sauces other than KC Masterpiece on the shelves of my local supermarkets.

Then there was this display this afternoon at the store I shop most often, from the leading brand of potato chips sold in the Greater Philadelphia market:



(The chip seasoning tasted more like A1 Sauce than the steak you put it on, but I really wasn't expecting it to taste medium rare or anything like that.)

Mind you, all this simply plays on the city's established reputation for barbecue and steak - it's like the "Original Philly" cheesesteaks on the menu at Grinders in the Crossroads - but there was a time not too long ago when the only thing on the supermarket shelf referencing Kansas City was that one brand of barbecue sauce I mentioned above.

And then there are the Original Juan hot sauces, which I find all over now. Just bought a bottle of Pain Is Good Batch #114 Jamaican Style and one of Pain 100% at an emporium in the Reading Terminal Market this week.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:42 PM
 
40 posts, read 22,442 times
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Im from St.Louis and enjoy visiting KC.. KC seems to be mostly recognized by its world class BBQ but while that overshadows everything KC has to offer i definitely think its one of the hidden gems in America.
KC has always been its own city and has its own identity i don't think it needs validating by the media or NYC what makes KC are the people who choose to make KC its home.
Like every city KC has its upsides and downsides.
As me being from St.Louis i can pick its flaws easily like everyone else however I'm choosing to be positive about St.Louis it has a lot to offer like many other cities and eventually those wrinkles will smoothen out.
Anyways KC is a great city..
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:37 AM
 
1,298 posts, read 983,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
There's another thread in this forum where people were weighing the relative profile height of Kansas City and St. Louis beyond the Midwest. I think the dominant opinion was that the City of Fountains remained a regional draw that didn't garner much notice once you got, say, 500 miles away from it.

At least on the food front, I strongly beg to differ now.

I can now find both store and national brand "Kansas City" barbecue sauces other than KC Masterpiece on the shelves of my local supermarkets.

Then there was this display this afternoon at the store I shop most often, from the leading brand of potato chips sold in the Greater Philadelphia market:



(The chip seasoning tasted more like A1 Sauce than the steak you put it on, but I really wasn't expecting it to taste medium rare or anything like that.)

Mind you, all this simply plays on the city's established reputation for barbecue and steak - it's like the "Original Philly" cheesesteaks on the menu at Grinders in the Crossroads - but there was a time not too long ago when the only thing on the supermarket shelf referencing Kansas City was that one brand of barbecue sauce I mentioned above.

And then there are the Original Juan hot sauces, which I find all over now. Just bought a bottle of Pain Is Good Batch #114 Jamaican Style and one of Pain 100% at an emporium in the Reading Terminal Market this week.
This is always fun stuff, but as far as I can tell the average Philadelphia shopper might as well see "Dodge City" in place of "Kansas City" on the package.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
5,498 posts, read 5,158,157 times
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This is always fun stuff, but as far as I can tell the average Philadelphia shopper might as well see "Dodge City" in place of "Kansas City" on the package.

My wife and I lived in Dodge City, KS, for a year, just before moving here to Grandview, MO. I'll never forget the National Beef and Cargill beef factories there. They were huge, beef processing "cities". The smell could get pretty nasty from time ta time. I couldn't slice cattle up for a living. Or package beef up. Or clean the facilities. None of it.


Never forget those places. And no, I didn't go on a tour of the facilities. Yuk.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,661 posts, read 1,770,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
This is always fun stuff, but as far as I can tell the average Philadelphia shopper might as well see "Dodge City" in place of "Kansas City" on the package.
I thought about this for a bit; I originally agreed with you but now only half agree.

I'll give an example from where I live now to explain why - only it's not from where I live now.

Of course, I'm talking about Philadelphia cream cheese.

It's never been made here.

It was invented by a dairy farmer in upstate New York in the 1870s. It was the first cheese of its type (a soft cheese made from cream rather than milk).

He wanted to intimate that it was a quality product - which is why he chose to name it for Philadelphia. At the time, the city was associated with quality cooking, and high-grade dairy products were often referred to as "Philadelphia quality."

It worked. That brand dominates its category to this day.

The reason Herr's chose to name its "steak flavor" potato chips for Kansas City is because of the culinary association. Sheesh, given what most people call the strip steak that bears the city's name up this way, they could have called them "New York Prime Steak Flavor" potato chips.

Does that have the same ring? I don't think so.

Similarly, the appearance of barbecue sauce that's explicitly identified as "Kansas City barbecue sauce" (I have a bottle of ShopRite Special Edition sauce in my pantry right now, which is a departure for me because I usually make my own) on supermarket shelves has come about because of the specific connection between the city and great barbecue - and it has a specific flavor profile and (thanks largely to Rich Davis) one ingredient usually not listed on the labels of most other barbecue sauces: molasses.

(In fact, I remember one premium private label line called Essensia, which I think was produced by Loblaws of Canada but sold in Acme supermarkets hereabouts; the name was a play on the word "essential" and product labels in that line usually had the phrase, "What's essential is the _________." There were three barbecue sauces in the Essensia line: Original, Southwestern and Kansas City. The label for the KC sauce read, "What's essential is the molasses.")

I suspect Philadelphians who are into barbecue do know the difference.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
Reputation: 5415
MarketStEl, I honestly don't think people on either coast care one bit to even waste their time "thinking" about Kansas City. They just don't care and never will care about KC. KC is never going to be on people's radar out here unless the Chiefs are playing one of their teams or the Royals make it back to the world series and even then they don't think about the city, they only think about the sports teams.

You will always have your explorers and travelers that seek out to see almost everything they can in the country and I think KC has always been sort of a "maybe if I get around to it" city for those types. People like myself and probably you that go out of their way to visit and explore every city in the country. But other than that KC is 100% completely ignored and in a vacuum on a national scale. It's visited by people within about 200-250 miles of the city and that's it. Now that's a sizable regional draw that includes cities like Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines, Tulsa etc), but outside of that sphere, KC may as well be Dodge City to the rest of the country no matter how much KC shows up in BBQ branding.

What KC is "starting" to get better at is being a city people (outside that 250 mile sphere) are at least okay with checking out for potential jobs/relocation. Ten years ago, it was like pulling teeth to even get people to visit KC. The image of KC was so bad and for the most part it was well deserved unless those people were only interested in suburban living. To a family that wants to settle in Lee's Summit or Olathe and never have any interest in leaving those areas, KC was a cheap and easy place to live. But for people wanting a more urban living experience, KC was just a terrible choice because while KC did have a few decent areas (around the plaza etc), it did not compare to the revitalization going on in almost every other city outside the rustbelt.

That's changing. KC still lacks the full package. Urban recreation in KC still totally sucks. I mean this is still where KC is just 25 years behind every other city in the country. And most jobs in KC are in far flung suburban office parks so even if you do find a great place to live in the city chances are you are still commuting. But they are building a lot of residential in KC and hopefully that leads to more jobs and more recreation. If it doesn't then KC's urban housing boom will grind to a halt within a couple of years which would be sad because KC really offers are great mix of urban housing with all the old buildings mixed with new construction.

I still sell KC to people out here every chance I get and people are always thoroughly impressed when I show them photos of KC or even mention how large the city is (people don't imagine KC to be a big city). But once they walk away, they really don't care again.

KC just needs to keep doing what it's doing and do more of what needs to be done, mainly spending money on infrastructure (transit, recreation, airport etc) doing that will grow the city more than anything else. But even as KC continues to get better, I'm not so sure the rest of the country will notice or care. MSP is a pretty cool place and few people from the coasts have any clue about that city. Even Denver is not well known outside the West and California.
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:53 PM
 
Location: KCMO (Plaza)
290 posts, read 230,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
That's changing. KC still lacks the full package. Urban recreation in KC still totally sucks. I mean this is still where KC is just 25 years behind every other city in the country. And most jobs in KC are in far flung suburban office parks so even if you do find a great place to live in the city chances are you are still commuting. But they are building a lot of residential in KC and hopefully that leads to more jobs and more recreation. If it doesn't then KC's urban housing boom will grind to a halt within a couple of years which would be sad because KC really offers are great mix of urban housing with all the old buildings mixed with new construction.

I still sell KC to people out here every chance I get and people are always thoroughly impressed when I show them photos of KC or even mention how large the city is (people don't imagine KC to be a big city). But once they walk away, they really don't care again.

KC just needs to keep doing what it's doing and do more of what needs to be done, mainly spending money on infrastructure (transit, recreation, airport etc) doing that will grow the city more than anything else. But even as KC continues to get better, I'm not so sure the rest of the country will notice or care. MSP is a pretty cool place and few people from the coasts have any clue about that city. Even Denver is not well known outside the West and California.
That's the issue. KC is improving a lot, but just coming back from Denver, the city seems to be 20 years behind regarding transit infrastructure, a network of bicycle paths, even freeway infrastructure is pretty lacking in parts. Let's hope KC can continue to improve things, but you're dealing with so many ignorant people here that don't want change on top of MO cities dealing with the morons in Jeff City. On the positive, I always see KC hats and Royals gear in Denver.
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