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Old 05-26-2017, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,361,269 times
Reputation: 48613

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Chicago, Minneapolis-St. Paul metro, a variety of Naval bases, and a number of small towns predominantly in the upper Midwest. Shorter term living (college terms) in Dublin, Ireland, and several cities in South Africa, but those were as a student, versus working adult. I was raised on a farm in a rural agricultural area in the upper Midwest, with the nearest municipality being a village of 300.

In the years I've lived in the KC metro, I've lived in the KC neighborhoods of the Plaza and Waldo, as well as Lee's Summit and Mission.

Overall, a pretty mixed bag of urban, suburban, small town, and very rural, across several continents.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: IN
20,170 posts, read 34,488,778 times
Reputation: 12508
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallastoChicagotoKC View Post
I compare us to Des Moines because it is a nearby city that has no business outperforming us. Yet it does. I am fairly familiar with it because I've been there a lot. It's a nice place. But I can't imagine why it's growing twice as fast as KC. That fact to me is very indicative of just how poorly KC is doing compared to its peers. Sure, KC has grown. And it has had net in migration. But it's been slow. I get that some people could care less about whether their city grows. I just think that's short sighted. Lack of growth has consequences and is indicative of other problems. Cities that aren't growing lose lots of talented individuals who want to be in more dynamic cities. I've spoken with many people involved in KC civic organizations who have commented on KC's "brain drain." That's a real problem. Also, companies with jobs overlook places with weak economies. Cities that failed to adapt and keep growing in the 60s and 70s are still hurting. Think Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, Cleveland.

KC isn't truly treading water. St. Louis is. But KC isn't far off. And if it doesn't continue to work for and encourage growth, it will get to a point where it's treading water. I just wish there wasn't so much push back against growth and development here. There is NO chance of us having the types of growing pains Dallas, Austin, SF and other booming (or once booming) cities have had.
I think a more valid comparison would be a direct competitor from the core of the Midwest, Indianapolis metro area. It will easily pass the KC metro in population by 2020 and is growing faster in percentage terms. The direct suburban competitor to Johnson County, KS is Hamilton County, IN and the latter is growing nearly twice as fast with a much higher median household income. In Carmel, IN, mostly traffic circles are built instead of intersections with stoplights.

Last edited by GraniteStater; 05-26-2017 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:17 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,146,270 times
Reputation: 1916
Psssst! Don't tell anybody on the city-nerd internet, but...it's not a zero sum game!
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:31 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,653 posts, read 5,640,644 times
Reputation: 7500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallastoChicagotoKC View Post
It is true that runaway growth has downsides. But KC will never have the problems SF has. Some of that is based on geography and the lack of available land close to the main urban centers (with mountains and oceans and whatnot). KC won't even be like Dallas or Austin. My analogy was just meant to say that a metro area that has stagnant growth likely has underlying health issues -- like a baby that's not growing. I'm not saying KC needs to grow like Dallas or Austin. But 4 percent in 6 years is slow, and the fact that most areas around us are growing faster is one piece of evidence that KC's growth is slow. If I had to choose between KC being like Buffalo or Austin, I'd choose Austin. Not that we wouldn't have our problems. But Austin's problems are better problems to have than Buffalo's. And my fear is that if KC doesn't continuously work to foster growth, it will become like St. Louis (no growth), and then like Buffalo (backward growth). Ask Buffalo folks how that's working out for them. We need population growth to have job growth. And I don't see any reason why we wouldn't want strong job growth.

I know you're not a big city fan. And I am. So we have different visions for KC. But it seems like we ought to be able to agree that at least having average growth would be a good thing.
The exploding national growth that we have seen in the last couple of decades is anything but a good thing. Especially for the metros that have received more than an average share of it. So, no, I don't accept your premise and see KC's more moderate growth than Austin's as a plus, not a minus.
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:38 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,653 posts, read 5,640,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasgoldrush View Post
The Brain Drain Gods have not been kind to KC. They placed Denver to the west of the city, Dallas and Houston to the south of the city, Atlanta to the southeast, Chicago to the northeast and Minneapolis to the north. I get the impression all of these places take more professionals from Kansas City than they give to it.
It all depends on your perspective. The kind of brains that move to Denver to smoke pot or find their urban "density" utopias in Boston, DC, or San Francisco KC can do without.
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Old 05-27-2017, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
10,705 posts, read 18,498,983 times
Reputation: 5415
Jesus. This thread is about a city that has barely grown for decades despite having tons of open land that is now growing at a modest but healthy rate. Nobody is saying that KCMO or metro KC should be growing at anywhere near the rate of sunbelt cities. It's just good to see that KCMO is getting a good portion of the metro area's new residents.
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Old 05-27-2017, 01:34 PM
 
112 posts, read 61,926 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
It all depends on your perspective. The kind of brains that move to Denver to smoke pot or find their urban "density" utopias in Boston, DC, or San Francisco KC can do without.
This is kind of silly. First, true potheads generally aren't going to fall into the category of talented, smart, motivated people that are part of the brain drain we're talking about. Second, plenty of people who love urban environments are great contributors to society. I'd like to think I'm one of them. Third, I'll give you an example. I moved to KC in high school (then left for 20 years and returned recently, and begrudgingly). Many, many of the people I hung around with who were in the top part of my graduating class moved away from KC and either never returned or were like me and returned only after 10, 15 or 20 years to be near family. That's the problem we're talking about. They didn't all move to urban utopias. Some did. Some went to places like Atlanta, Charlotte, several Texas cities. Point being that many of them went to dynamic cities, whether large or small. It's a shame KC couldn't retain them. I get that some people could care less about living in a dynamic city. But young professionals are most likely to care about that sort of thing. And losing those people to other cities is bad for KC Metro's economy and its tax base.
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Old 05-27-2017, 02:41 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,653 posts, read 5,640,644 times
Reputation: 7500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallastoChicagotoKC View Post
This is kind of silly. First, true potheads generally aren't going to fall into the category of talented, smart, motivated people that are part of the brain drain we're talking about. Second, plenty of people who love urban environments are great contributors to society. I'd like to think I'm one of them. Third, I'll give you an example. I moved to KC in high school (then left for 20 years and returned recently, and begrudgingly). Many, many of the people I hung around with who were in the top part of my graduating class moved away from KC and either never returned or were like me and returned only after 10, 15 or 20 years to be near family. That's the problem we're talking about. They didn't all move to urban utopias. Some did. Some went to places like Atlanta, Charlotte, several Texas cities. Point being that many of them went to dynamic cities, whether large or small. It's a shame KC couldn't retain them. I get that some people could care less about living in a dynamic city. But young professionals are most likely to care about that sort of thing. And losing those people to other cities is bad for KC Metro's economy and its tax base.
Whether you realize it or not, what you're really saying here is that people's perspectives evolve as they mature. And, for many, maturity shines a light on the good thing they had in their youth, but didn't recognize.

What's "kind of silly" is to think that Kansas City's life quality would be improved by those whose influence would turn it into San Francisco or Jersey City and destroy it's airport in the process.
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Old 05-27-2017, 03:02 PM
 
482 posts, read 216,358 times
Reputation: 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasgoldrush View Post
The Brain Drain Gods have not been kind to KC. They placed Denver to the west of the city, Dallas and Houston to the south of the city, Atlanta to the southeast, Chicago to the northeast and Minneapolis to the north. I get the impression all of these places take more professionals from Kansas City than they give to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
It all depends on your perspective. The kind of brains that move to Denver to smoke pot or find their urban "density" utopias in Boston, DC, or San Francisco KC can do without.
Specifically I was referring to the "kind of brains" that generate economic development, contribute to the tax base, and invest in cultural institutions either through philanthropy or patronage. For example, Seattle's probably very happy that Bill Gates relocated to his hometown during the early years of Microsoft. Look at what it's done for the area since -- it has catapulted Seattle into a high-tech hub when it had little other reason to become one.

There are numerous other examples. The Bay Area isn't bothered that Mark Zuckerberg set up shop there. Dallas more than welcomes the jobs and amenities Mark Cuban has brought to the area. And I imagine Northwest Arkansas appreciates the Waltons.

I guess to each his own, but to be indifferent about attracting or keeping young professionals because they're possibly not fully mature, or because they may eventually cause the area to become more urban/dense -- that's a self-harming position in my opinion.
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Old 05-27-2017, 03:21 PM
 
16 posts, read 7,839 times
Reputation: 13
KC is growing at a nice controlled rate. I think it is a hidden gem and will boom sometime in next 20 years. If investments like the Trolie keep coming property values will sky rocket.
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