How "southern" is Kansas City? (St. Louis, St. Joseph: appointed, plantation)

[Claytonian4]

Originally Posted by mo guy

European and Catholic ---St Louis is more like Baltimore

KC is more like the modern southern cities --- NEW ---but still southern at its core

Lol Kansas City is Midwestern to the core and has nothing in common with modern Southern cities. It’s most similar peers are Des Moines and Omaha. KC is nothing like Nashville, Dallas, Richmond, Louisville, or Atlanta.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by Claytonian4

General Grant and General Sherman were not St. Louis natives.

Nope. Grant's wife, Julia, was from St. Louis, but Grant was not. He and Sherman were both from Ohio.

[Claytonian4]

Originally Posted by MoNative34

Hi ajf!! How have you been?

I know nobody of that name.

[CaseyMO]

Originally Posted by TarHeelTerritory

How "southern" do you consider Kansas City, Missouri to be? Given its jazz and barbecue heritage, association with and location within the historic "Little Dixie" region of Missouri (first settled by migrants from areas such as Tennessee and Kentucky), and other cultural markers, I assume KC has had its fair share of influence from the South. As such, how much of a role does Southern culture play in KC's identity? Do you consider Kansas City more Midwestern than Southern or more Southern than Midwestern (and by how much), or about equal?

Lived here most of my life. I never think about being southern or northern. It's just the plain old Midwestern. Come to think of it, I don't even recall any of my local friends or acquaintances considering themselves anything other than Midwesterners.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Claytonian4

Kansas City has Southern influences but it is Midwestern to the core. Same thing for St. Louis. The rest of Missouri however has more heavy and pronounced Southern influences outside of these two cities, and while most of it isn't the true South, the southern quarter might as well be an extension of Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, and Oklahoma.

I pretty much agree but would argue that northern Missouri doesn't have "heavy and pronounced" Southern influences; wherever US 36 runs west of Hannibal is more like Iowa than Arkansas.

[KC_Retiree]

I wish this kind of discussion would go away.

KC is midwestern to the core. The fact that the city is near (not within) Missouri's little Dixie is irrelevant. The population of KC and western Missouri at the time of the civil war was very small. At the onset of the civil war, KC had a population of just over 4000 people. Western Missouri in general was not densely populated. While it's true much of the area was originally populated by folks from the south (some came with the nefarious motive of expanding slavery), the population did not grow into anything substantial until KC was chosen as the site of the Missouri River railroad bridge in 1869. After that point in time, KC started becoming the manufacturing center that it has been (more or less) since and the population grew from migration from the east many of whom were immigrants. If there ever was a "southern" presence, it has long been overwhelmed and it is no longer an entity at all. The only thing "southern" about KC is that most of the large Italian immigration around the turn of the last century were from the deep south - of Italy - from Sicily.

The BBQ heritage came about because of the combination of the stockyards meeting Henry Perry (an African American from the south - all midwestern US cities experienced that migration) who plied his trade in KC before passing it on to the Bryant family and indirectly to the Gates family. That same migration resulted in the Jazz scene.

KC's pre-automobile heritage yielded something most southern cities do not have; a fairly dense urban core (which we have tried our best to destroy before finally realizing how valuable it truly is). With a few exceptions, the large cities of the south developed after the automobile came along and lack the dense urban core that KC has.

[mo guy]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

Nope. Grant's wife, Julia, was from St. Louis, but Grant was not. He and Sherman were both from Ohio.

Sherman is buried in St Louis --- Calvary Cemetery ---I guess Grant didn't live at Grants at Grants farm --- lol


Strange isn't it that the largest city in a slave state St Louis --- wound up being the Gibraltar of the West for the Union Army --- with both the two greatest Union generals calling it home --- just say'n

KC might as well be Memphis ---Ya'll

[mo guy]

Originally Posted by Claytonian4

You can't say what a place was 160 years ago makes it what it is today, especially with the historic border states. So you're telling me KC natives speak with southern speech patterns, politically vote to the right, religiously are conservative Christians, identify as American in terms of ancestry, etc? Because none of these are true. Calling Kansas City the south from a modern standpoint is almost like calling a place like Nashville the Midwest, because obviously Nashville has more in common with Chicago and Detroit than it does Memphis, Louisville, or Atlanta

I would like to point out - that you posted multiple comments to my post ---which clearly proves my point --- there would not be a thread if you were trying to distance your history ---perhaps a better question --- Does KC also have an inferiority complex? --- well yes - I think it does! KC sometimes reminds me of Texas --the way you have to make up stuff and brag about ( silly) ---like" more fountains than Rome" --- "the Paris of the Plains" ---please -- you are sounding rather quaint - lol


My question to YOU is --- what exactly is KC's Core? -- it's SOUTHERN


KC - and the whole of MESSouri --- is a complicated pile of mess --- just say'n --- YA'LL

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by mo guy

Sherman is buried in St Louis --- Calvary Cemetery ---I guess Grant didn't live at Grants at Grants farm --- lol


Strange isn't it that the largest city in a slave state St Louis --- wound up being the Gibraltar of the West for the Union Army --- with both the two greatest Union generals calling it home --- just say'n

You stated that STL is Sherman and Grants' "home town" [sic].

It isn't ---just say'n.

[mo guy]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

You stated that STL is Sherman and Grants' "home town" [sic].

It isn't ---just say'n.

Thank you for proving my point --- like Gen Grant --- I accept your surrender


Whenever a Southerner arrives in St Louis ---and learns that General Sherman is buried there --- plus that General Grants house - GRANTS FARM --- is huge tourist attraction --- that's enough to traumatize them and make them move on to CONFEDERATE Kansas City --- LOL