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View Poll Results: How "Southern" is Kansas City?
Significantly more Midwestern than Southern 77 71.96%
Moderately more Midwestern than Southern 21 19.63%
Moderately more Southern than Midwestern 1 0.93%
Significantly more Southern than Midwestern 1 0.93%
About equally Midwestern and Southern 7 6.54%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-21-2018, 03:02 PM
 
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If you lived north of the Canadian border you’d notice the southern aspects of Minneapolis a lot more.
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
I picked the top option but if we were talking about Jackson County I would probably have selected the second option. I think Independence has a little more southernness to it than KC. There has been a large influx of Irish and other immigrants in KC. Counties to the north across the river, Clay County (Jesse James) and Ray County (Richmond as the county seat) and Lafayette County (Battle of the Hemp Bales) to the east have a bit more residual southernness but they have to work at it sometimes so it seems fake and silly at times.
True. those areas of Little Dixie to retain some southern elements. Not enough to be in the south of course but maybe 30 percent southern influence still. Stlouisan was traveling for work a lot in the MO river areas of the state and he even admitted the influences were stronger than what he would expect for that far north.

The other poster just mentioned Springfield but Springfield is a part of the state you can't really debate. Of course the southern influences are stronger there. It's in far southern Missouri and not far from Arkansas. Just south of Sprinfield is full on southern. Brad Pitt is from there and says Springfield is literally right on the dividing line. North of that is the transition zone.

However in south central Missouri that transition zone takes a jet north.

East and south of Jackson County the influences are noticeable though.

Similar in a way in eastern MO except for eastern MO. St. Francis County you also begin to notice the transition zone as well in places like Farmington. Head east though and its all Midwestern due to immigration patterns until you get to Cape Girardeau county then the southerness gets fairly strong within a short distance with little in the way of any transition zone. When you hit Jackson you notice the southerness hits.
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
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Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
You would notice the southern aspects much more if you lived in the Midwest north of I-80.
I think you mean I-70?
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
I think you mean I-70?
Except places north of there in Missouri depending on location you will see some of it still. Not enough to be in that transition zone that starts near US 50 and the MO river but some slight differences. Still have a lot of southern Baptist too in rural northern MO in areas. Still a big difference than Iowa and Nebraska in some things.
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
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Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
However in south central Missouri that transition zone takes a jet north.
That transition zone is very hard to define in south central Missouri because there are forces that keep the southern culture at bay or at least very fragmented. Lake of the Ozarks has a growing influence and is mostly city folks or northern midwestern people. Of course there’s some hillbilly commercialism around the lake but it’s more fake than real. Fort Leonard Wood is another factor. The fort brings a lot of outside influences into the Pulaski County area. The German settlement influence stretches from the Missouri River south almost to Rolla and St. James and over towards Ste. Genevieve and parts of Perry Co. There are some German communities on the west side of the lakes and a growing influence of Amish Mennonite through a large portion of the northwestern side of the lakes. Another factor is employment opportunities. When I lived and worked in Jefferson City we had people driving in from as far away as Rolla to their jobs. All that serves to preserve and project a pretty strong midwestern influence. South of those areas you will have a country Ozark (transition) culture that is somewhat Appalachian and seems southern until you actually encounter a real southern culture in the bootheel and along the Arkansas border. I’m sure folks from Chicago or Minnesota are convinced they are in the south when they reach Lake of the Ozarks but they need to go 200 miles to the southeast if that’s what they are looking for. Granted, there are enclaves like Little Dixie that preserve some aspects of southern culture (in places like Lexington) but there is a tourism incentive to do so simply because it is a novelty.
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Old 08-21-2018, 05:19 PM
 
Location: in a pond with the other human scum
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KC seems, if anything, more western than anything IMO, reflecting its history as a major terminus for cattle drives. The most obvious evidence (again to me) is the American Royal with its rodeo, livestock show, and horse show. And, notwithstanding a prior poster's argument of its similarity with Memphis, I'd say it's far closer to Texas BBQ-- brisket, sausage, and spicy sauce.

More evidence that Missouri may have more distinct geographic flavors to it than any other state...and people from other states, like "anyone living in the midwest north of I-80," the whole state looks more distinct from where they live (for Iowans, for instance, more southern). My Texas family thinks the entire state is northern and eastern.

Me, I appreciate the distinctiveness of the different areas of the state. It's really kind of where regional cultures meet and sometimes, well, clash.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SunGrins View Post
That transition zone is very hard to define in south central Missouri because there are forces that keep the southern culture at bay or at least very fragmented. Lake of the Ozarks has a growing influence and is mostly city folks or northern midwestern people. Of course there’s some hillbilly commercialism around the lake but it’s more fake than real. Fort Leonard Wood is another factor. The fort brings a lot of outside influences into the Pulaski County area. The German settlement influence stretches from the Missouri River south almost to Rolla and St. James and over towards Ste. Genevieve and parts of Perry Co. There are some German communities on the west side of the lakes and a growing influence of Amish Mennonite through a large portion of the northwestern side of the lakes. Another factor is employment opportunities. When I lived and worked in Jefferson City we had people driving in from as far away as Rolla to their jobs. All that serves to preserve and project a pretty strong midwestern influence. South of those areas you will have a country Ozark (transition) culture that is somewhat Appalachian and seems southern until you actually encounter a real southern culture in the bootheel and along the Arkansas border. I’m sure folks from Chicago or Minnesota are convinced they are in the south when they reach Lake of the Ozarks but they need to go 200 miles to the southeast if that’s what they are looking for. Granted, there are enclaves like Little Dixie that preserve some aspects of southern culture (in places like Lexington) but there is a tourism incentive to do so simply because it is a novelty.
Pulaski County has noticeable southern influences though. Totally different than Ste. Gen which is pure midwestern. Even driving over to St. Francis County it's totally different than Ste. Gen in that short distance.

My dad was stationed at Ft. Leonard Wood in the late 60s and said the locals were pretty much hicks, trashy back then. I used to hear non whites were told to be careful when venturing off base.

Rolla is near the southern end of the transition zone. Sure some midwestern influences but there is also strong southern influence as well.

Univ of PA dialect maps also back up south central MO as well. That was done in 1997 though.

I agree about Lake of the Ozarks. With the growing population you're bound to dilute the culture. I'm sure 50 years ago there was more Ozarks and southernish influences before it became as popular.

Lake of the Ozarks is on the northern end of that transition zone which means midwestern influence is a lot stronger than southern.

Table Rock though is the total opposite. The last time I was there it felt and looked southern to me. My late uncle use to have a house at Bull Shoals about 5 miles from Arkansas and there was NOTHING Midwestern about that area of Missouri. Again those areas around Highway 60 in the Ozarks are the Ozarks, upland south hick culture. It isn't the same as Southeast Missouri and the deep south type culture the Bootheel has. Many think because the Ozarks are not like the deep south that it's not southern. I see the same thing said about northern AR Ozarks on here as well. It's like a southern lite as I call it.

Also even in northern half of Missouri you can look and ancestry and religion and still see some southern influences in parts. Parts around Kirksville for example are strongly Midwestern.

I had a summer course teacher at College from Iowa and his dad was a minister up there. He said when he crossed into Missouri and the more you get into Missouri how the feel is totally different than IA. Bible Belt and you start picking up on the gradual southern influences as you go south.

The people in the Ozarks in the transition zone and especially the parts in the southern quarter of MO that are southern seem really not much like the rest of the Midwest. Ancestry, southern dialect line and religion really don't line up with the Midwest. Culturally they seem more upland south. You also don't see the rebel flag paraphernalia displayed as much in Midwest states like OH,IN, IL like you do in southern Missouri, especially deeper in the Ozarks and SEMO. Even further north in parts of Little Dixie you see it still. Again this isn't as common in the other Midwest states.

Politically MO also doesn't behave like other midwestern states. The Republican lawmakers are more extreme when it comes to gays and abortion and especially guns. Kansas is up there with gun laws though. Actually MO is more pro gun than the south other than Mississippi which is equal.

You're not going to see Indiana or Ohio pass permit less carry. IN seemed like they'd try but that lost steam last year.

MO overall today is more midwestern but the state still has noticeable southern influences on it especially religion and social issues. As a whole the state feels more southern than here in Florida. MO has retained more of its southern influences than FL has IMO.

I'd say the southern line is roughly from Cape Girardeau over to just south of Joplin and north of that to near I70 is transition zone with more midwestern as the further north you go away from highway 60.

Overall almost everyone on the MO has came to the conclusion MO is 50 percent midwestern, 25 percent transition zone and 25 percent southern.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle
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Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
That's probably because you're so familiar with it. This may be one of those issues where outsiders and newcomers might have a better perspective on, because they haven't become accustomed to anything about it.
Exactly. I grew up in a truly Midwestern area, Northwest Indiana, and could easily feel the southern influences in Kansas City. Definitely not like the Great Lakes region, that’s for sure.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:20 PM
 
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Btw I'm not from Kansas City but from Stl so I don't want to say too much about it. With St. Louis area we have talked about how in modern times it's a Midwest city with eastern influences. It has less southern influences than KC has. However, on the MO forum we have talked about that and how today Stl is a Midwest city but it was once considered a border city and even today there are still some slight traces of that left that there was once much more southern influence many many many years ago.

I just can't really put my finger on it or have the time to really explain it but it just feels different and you can tell in the past it was quite different. I think some of those subtle traces never get erased from the culture totally.


If you include the entire stl metro which covers a large area of MO and IL, there are chunks of it that are in the transition zone not too far from Stl. Heck 90 miles south on I55 you're in the south.


I went to Webster and in my international studies class we had some Washington U professor on culture come in and lecture and I mentioned MO and border states.


Basically he said with MO but mostly our region of the state we are in that we are like stuck in between. We really are not quite the north, but we're not southern. Sandwiched in between two. Go just south of stl and you're in transition zone and 90 miles south it's south and go 120 miles north of stl and it's northern.


I think he's right though on that. The area isn't southern, but it's really not that northern. Like I said I can't put my finger on it but it just feels different than anywhere else in the Midwest. I think the various cultures have an overall influence on the state though ever since the civil war and even today that hasn't gone away.


My dad lived in Chicago for 6 months years ago for business. While the two cities are very similar he did say Chicago felt a lot more northern than St. Louis.
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
Exactly. I grew up in a truly Midwestern area, Northwest Indiana, and could easily feel the southern influences in Kansas City. Definitely not like the Great Lakes region, that’s for sure.
We are not denying the southern influences in the poll on here, just stating overall it's mostly midwestern but there are some southern influences in Kansas City, yes. I'd say it's about 15 percent in Jackson County area. Mainly midwestern but a little influence. It's when you get further west in the metro area like out in Lafayette you will notice the influences a lot more.

It's close but not quite close enough for the transition zone classification that should start just right below KC.

Go further south way down to Neosho Missouri which is about 150 miles south of Kansas City. You will be calling Kansas City midwestern when comparing it to there which is southern basically.

Missouri from about the MO river on south to close to highway 60 is just like southern Indiana is. More south you go the more influence. Around highway 60 and south of that in Missouri IS Dixie. Which even Brad Pitt has said Springfield is literally right on the dividing line.

Btw Blue Fox, do you travel to Southern Indiana a lot? How would you compare the southern influences in KC to southern IN? I'm not talking right on the Ohio River but a tad north of that. Because that part of IN is still in the transition zone a little bit. That might give you an idea of the level of southern influence you see in KC.
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