Three Trails Project including Wizards Stadium clears Final Hurdle (Kansas City: mall, jobs)

[OneKC]

I don't disagree with either of you - VW made the most sense for the Wizards. But I just ask you to look at the cumulative effect of all these business leaving KCMO for Lenexa, Overland Park, KCK, Lee's Summit. It hurts our metro overall and instead of poaching off KCMO, these suburbs should be bringing new jobs and development to our metro area. That is why so many KCMO residents are frustrated.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by OneKC

I don't disagree with either of you - VW made the most sense for the Wizards. But I just ask you to look at the cumulative effect of all these business leaving KCMO for Lenexa, Overland Park, KCK, Lee's Summit. It hurts our metro overall and instead of poaching off KCMO, these suburbs should be bringing new jobs and development to our metro area. That is why so many KCMO residents are frustrated.

I agree that the whole metro should be trying to bring new jobs in. But what we are saying is that it's not necessarily "poaching" when a company moves across the state line. Another way to look at is "saving KC's rear end"!

Rather than having these businesses leave the metro altogether, JoCo and WyCo kept them here! The workers from Jackson County have to drive a little farther to work - but they still have the work!

If JoCo and WyCo simply turned away the businesses that are leaving KCMO, where would we all be??? I'd rather see the development shift a little than see the whole metro become a ghost town. Wouldn't you?

I know it's frustrating for KCMO. I don't blame them for being bitter. But once again, this is not a conspiracy. These companies are looking to cut costs and they are willing to move in order to do so. If it's a choice between losing them completely or shifting them across the state line, I think the latter is preferable. And I think the leadership of JoCo and WyCo would be completely derelict if they did not step up and take the opportunity to keeep them in KC.

[RjRobb2]

You're on a roll!

Sadly, there are people in KC that would rather lose companies all together than them move to the other side of the state line. It's that whole toddler complex of, "if I cant play with it, no one can!"

Just so everyone knows, I am not directly referring to anyone on this board. I just have met people that have that attitude.

[kcmo]

Are you robb over on big soccer??? If so, that explains your passion for just getting a SSS. I get that.

But this project is yet another in a very long list of blown opportunities. The KC metro just continues to make the same mistakes over and over again. It just won’t learn from it’s own mistakes.

Samantha, I don’t care how far away it is. It’s an undeveloped area. It would be like putting the stadium east of Grain Valley on the MO side.

I’m just disappointed. Extremely disappointed in all parties involved that the Three Trails project didn’t work out. It’s not that I really blame KCK or Cerner really, they are just getting the brunt of my frustration of the KCMO to JOCO corporate migration that has been going on for decades. (it’s not some new movement). It’s how the KS side developed. Period.

I really wanted to see the project in SKC happen. I think a lot was on the line. It’s a very high profile area, hundreds of thousands of people live within a few miles of the site. It had the chance of sparking a brand new wave of investment in a massive part of KC that is already developed and already has infrastructure in place to support such a project.

I personally think it’s a sad day for the region as a whole. Not as bad as watching the Wizards leave town, but like I said, one more major opportunity to do something special wasted. I never drive by the speedway. Traffic volumes on 435 over there are barely a blip compared to SE KCMO. Every time I drive through the triangle though, I will think of what could have been while people like you celebrate the amazing growth out by the speedway.

Once again, we are two very different people when it comes to metropolitan growth. Continue hollowing out KCMO, creating blight and promoting sprawl KC. You are the best in the country at it…

I will never get the excitement behind developments like this. I just never will. Like I said, the Wizards will lose a lot of fans though and they will become primarily a KS team like the Tbones which is fine if that’s all they need. It’s just too bad. I will always picture a massive RE-development along 435 that is within 15 minutes of over 1 million people. But hey, that’s me. Good for the team and KCK.

BTW, I hated the people in SKC that threw a fit when the mall was being torn down. They wanted to keep it. I thought that was so stupid. They were right all along. It was torn down for nothing.

[northbound74]

Originally Posted by Samantha S

I don't understand the sarcasm. Your analogies don't fit. Hard drives and engines can be replaced without trashing the whole computer or car.

The development of the metro is shifting a little. It doesn't mean the whole metro is going to fall apart.

Some parts of the metro are struggling, some are doing just fine and even growing. Some areas of the metro have proven that the city of KCMO is not the engine that's driving them. All in all, I think the metro area, as a whole, is doing okay.

But this double standard really baffles me.

People go on and on and on about how "we need regional cooperation!" "We all need to work together! We're all one big metro!"

But let JoCo or WyCo succeed where the city of KCMO fails and watch the sparks fly!

If Cerner and the Wizards would have changed their plans and chosen to move up near NKC or some other location on the MO side, we would not be hearing much about it. Yeah the people around 95th and Bannister would still be upset, but we would not be hearing any big outcry about it - after all - they would still be viewed as being in KC.

But let them move to a location no further away from downtown - just a different direction - and you would think they were going to Siberia! OMG! Now the Wizards will be a Kansas team! Whatever shall we do?!!?!? How could they???? Kansas sucks!! Doesn't everyone know that?!?!? THAT'S NOT KC!!!!!

Nevermind that the area they chose shows great promise for continued success and it still keeps the team and the jobs in the metro.

I'm sorry, but what happened to this "we're all one big metro" idea??? Progress and growth seem to be okay, as long as it happens in the "right" places. But for some reason, JoCo is supposed to stay a bedroom community and WyCo is supposed to remain "cow pastures." New offices and retail at 95th and Bannister would be "fantastic" but near the speedway, the same offices and retail are "crap". Stick to the status quo ....

I want the City of KC, MO to succeed as much as anyone. It benefits the whole metro when that happens. But if it can't happen in Jackson County, for whatever reason, poor city leadership being at the top of the list, then I see nothing wrong with other parts of the metro picking up the ball and running.

THIS ALSO has benefits back to the whole metro area.

The basic principle of my analogy works just fine. If the engine is broken, not running well, the rest of the car doesn't move forward as it should.
KC, MO is not run well. We all know that. It's nothing new, and has been going on for years. That's just a small part of the problem around here. We all know what the other problems are.

Sorry, but Lee's Summit, the northland, and Johnson County just aren't attractive places to live without Kansas City, MO. Without KCMO, you're probably not even another Wichita.
You see, Kansas City does, and allows, things most suburb-type places wouldn't. You're never going to see a Liberty Memorial along Metcalf. The new Kauffman Center for Performing Arts would never make it through zoning regulations in most suburbs. Nelson-Atkins? Crossroads? Forget about it. Country Club Plaza? Not the right architecture. Wouldn't fit in properly. Too much color.
The city handles the big-time stuff. That's what it's supposed to do. Sometimes, it's own leadership fails to see that.

The soccer stadium in and of itself, I personally don't care much about. I just hate that the whole thing has gone down like it has, regardless of who's at fault. I still, and always will, think it adds to needless sprawl. But hey, Village West is already out there, and nobody's going to tear it down, so at this point, that argument is getting stale, I know. I still say that a more needy part of town should have gotten this, but oh well. Corporations don't care about that kind of thing, usually. Cerner will make oodles of money anywhere they put themselves, and they choose a racetrack.

Say what you will, but it's not about Kansas v. Missouri for me. I think just about any part of KCK east of what they chose would have been vastly more helpful to the people of that town.
North Kansas City? There's nowhere to put such a thing, but at least it wouldn't have perpetuated that 's' word.
I would have been opposed to Oak Grove, Cass County, or Smithville. The fact that any of those places have a population to report almost seems pointless to my sprawl-hating self.
Yeah, I get irritated sometimes that half of Blue Springs residents live there because they simply don't want to live in Independence. Good grief, southeast Independence is actually much nicer than many parts of Blue Springs. They're even in the same school district. At least those people still shop in Indy, for the moment anyway. We get their tax dollars and probably can thank them for the smooth streets and snazzy improvements all over town.

Yeah, I'm not from here.
Didn't move here with any preconceived notion of Kansas or Missouri. Honestly, it all looked the same to me at first. Gladstone, south Independence, Overland Park, Lee's Summit, no real difference. It still looks visibly the same to me.
It was when we decided to buy a house in Independence that I noticed how people treated us. We would have been better off with the swine flu, from the way we were treated by people mostly in Johnson County. I couldn't believe it. Various groups we were a part of, all sorts of people, it was all the same story. They thought we were insane for making that choice.
So there we were, thrown into this border war crap.
I hate it.
Call it stereotyping or generalizing if you will. I call it 75% of the people I encounter, no exaggeration.

An imaginary line around the metro. That would be a neat idea. Say, "you can't build past this, 'till the population hits 3 million".
There is nothing stopping anything around here from going as far out as they want in all directions. They even promote it. Let them.
A once beautiful city is turning itself into a very unattractive place. Bloated and unmanageable, KC, MO might be the worst offender. It wrapped itself around Raytown, shot up past the current-day airport, and much of that land sits empty. The suburbs pretty much do the same thing, but in more orderly fashion.
They still don't know when to stop. The secret is to know when to stop. Then you go up.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I’m just disappointed. Extremely disappointed in all parties involved that the Three Trails project didn’t work out. It’s not that I really blame KCK or Cerner really, they are just getting the brunt of my frustration of the KCMO to JOCO corporate migration that has been going on for decades. (it’s not some new movement). It’s how the KS side developed. Period.

Agreed. This certainly isn't the first time a company has sought to move and KS has been able to give them what MO can't and keep them in the metro. I understand the frustration. But the animosity is misplaced. If you lose a foot race, what good does it do to get mad at the guy who beat you? Put that energy into better training for the next race. KCMO has never taken this approach.

To continue to disparage KS the way you do is unfair, it's petty, it doesn't at all help people who come to this website for information about the metro, and it generally just adds fuel to the border war.

So cut it out! And that's two shots for you!

Originally Posted by northbound74

KC, MO might be the worst offender.

And you admit it too! (That's also two shots for you by the way )

One of the main issues here is that people from the midwest do not (generally) want to live in densely populated areas. I'm not even sure that's unique to the midwest. Even for people in cities like Chicago and NY, moving out to the burbs is often viewed as a goal to be attained.

It's just that here, it's easy to do! Land is cheap, there is no ocean or lake that limits the spread (I didn't say sprawl - oops! one shot for me!) and so people are able to have what they want. Lot's of people live in cities. But it's not always because they want to. The people of this area (many, not all) don't want to, and they don't have to.

If the city wants to remain competitive and entice people to live there as well as keep their existing businesses and bring in more, they are going to have to change the game. Train better, run faster. Whining isn't getting us anywhere. Preventing people from living where they want to is crazy, it would kill the metro faster than anything, and it's unAmerican!

I'm just repeating myself now, so I'll stop ...

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by northbound74

Yeah, I'm not from here.
Didn't move here with any preconceived notion of Kansas or Missouri. Honestly, it all looked the same to me at first. Gladstone, south Independence, Overland Park, Lee's Summit, no real difference. It still looks visibly the same to me.
It was when we decided to buy a house in Independence that I noticed how people treated us. We would have been better off with the swine flu, from the way we were treated by people mostly in Johnson County. I couldn't believe it. Various groups we were a part of, all sorts of people, it was all the same story. They thought we were insane for making that choice.
So there we were, thrown into this border war crap.
I hate it.

This is my experience, too, having moved here from another state with nothing in terms of preconceptions, having no personal history with the divide or attached biases, and definitely no dog in the KS/MO or JoCo/KCMO fight. People from certain areas may be shocked to hear it, but it all looked and felt pretty much the same, to me, too. I wouldn't have realized there was any distinction...until I got a whiff of the attitudes. Yuck.

[RjRobb2]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Are you robb over on big soccer??? If so, that explains your passion for just getting a SSS. I get that.

No, that is not me.

Originally Posted by kcmo

Samantha, I don’t care how far away it is. It’s an undeveloped area. It would be like putting the stadium east of Grain Valley on the MO side.

It's not as undeveloped as you think. Buildings are being built continually over there. I have three different friends that have moved from different parts of the city to the area near Legends. They have access to all the same stores I do and dont drive any farther.

Originally Posted by kcmo

I will never get the excitement behind developments like this. I just never will. Like I said, the Wizards will lose a lot of fans though and they will become primarily a KS team like the Tbones which is fine if that’s all they need. It’s just too bad. I will always picture a massive RE-development along 435 that is within 15 minutes of over 1 million people. But hey, that’s me. Good for the team and KCK.

I dont think they will lose as many fans as you think. People in Kansas City are use to driving 30 minutes or so for attractions. It's just part of living here. As I mentioned before, I am part of a large Wizards supporters group in which almost all the members live in south Kansas City. Not a single one plan on dropping their season tickets. In fact, some of them even think this plan is better for the team. This also opens up pulling fans from Topeka and Lawrence as well.

The part about it being primarily a Kansas team is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by kcmo

BTW, I hated the people in SKC that threw a fit when the mall was being torn down. They wanted to keep it. I thought that was so stupid. They were right all along. It was torn down for nothing.

Agreed.

[RjRobb2]

UPDATE

The Wizards hosted a season ticket holder event last night and released some more information.

The Wizards have made an agreement with the Unified Government of Wyandotte COunty that they will not negotiate any further with KCMO for 30 days. This gives the UG 30 days to get the official approval of the Star Bonds which is expected to happen without issue. If this happens, the project will proceed and ground breaking will happen by the end of the year. The 30 days started last week so it is more like 20 now.

This next statement is actually a correction from something I posted earlier. OnGoal has actually spent 33 million dollars on the Three Trails project and a brick hasnt even been laid. They were working really hard trying to get retailers to commit so the city and state would approve the bonds. Everyone they approached was wanted to build until 2012 at the earliest but more likely 2013-2015.

The Three Trails project will still likely happen but obviously the stadium will not be included and it will be on a smaller scale then originally planned.

[RjRobb2]

Here is an article from the KC Business Journal about the Three Trails project and what went wrong. It also talks about the future of the project and gives more details about the plan for Legends. Very interesting read. It also mentions that Cerner plans to create 20,000 new jobs in the area by 2020.

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/09/21/story1.html?b=1253505600^2111921


http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2009/09/21/story1.html?b=1253505600^2111921