The Kansas vs Missouri debate, why does half of KC hate the other half? (Kansas City: crime, credit)

[kcmo]

For what it worth, this post is not directed at anybody on this forum. I am only trying to show the types of behavior that creates the friction between KS and MO. Let’s try to keep the KS vs MO stuff in this thread so we don’t ruin every thread. Yea, myself included!

I honestly think most of the friction is caused by Kansas side residents (even if it’s a tiny percent of the population). Why would I have anything against JoCo when I moved back to KC? I didn’t have anything against it at all. I actually looked forward to working in Overland Park. But I was a born and raised and proud KCMO resident and I got tired of the constant anti KCMO remarks. Make fun of MU all day long. I don’t care. But to put down where somebody lives for no reason other than to make where you live look better? Not cool. Why is there no (or much less) resentment toward other suburbs like the Northland or Lee’s Summit? I know the common rebuttal to this is “isn’t this exactly what your are dong by putting down Johnson County?. Yes it is. My point is that something caused me and countless others to have issues with Johnson County.

There are few things that JoCo could learn to do to really help fix this problem so you don’t get looked down on when you tell people from MO you are from JoCo Samantha

First. There are many MO suburban areas that compare very well with JoCo suburbs and these areas have good schools. People don’t have to leave MO and go to KS for good schools. Every time somebody takes a jab at “schools in MO”, they are not just putting down the KCMOSD, but all the good districts as well, which there are many. I really think people in JoCo need to spend a little more time in the MO suburbs and understand that there are very upscale areas in the MO suburbs and the not so upscale areas are not so bad. Not everybody can live in a 250k home.

Second. Don’t put down areas you know nothing about. Independence, Raytown etc are talked down by JoCo residents all the time. Raytown is a comfortable, modest middle class suburb that is full of nice areas and is very comparable to much of northern JoCo. Independence has its share of problems, but the city also has a lot of nice middle class and upper class areas as well as a historic and charming downtown area. It doesn’t deserve the “meth” image it gets and KCTV5 (JoCo’s favorite station) needs to stop going out there and doing BS stories on pit bulls and what not. Channel 5 was sued by the Indep police for trying to manufacture a police brutality story be putting a hidden camera on a person and trying to get a cop to hit them. They are also amazingly live in Indep when a pit-bull is lose in streets. Why don’t they do stories like this in KCK or Shawnee or Merriam? Because that is their audience. KCTV5 is generally hated on the MO side as they are known as the “shock” station and are known on the MO side for catering to JoCo with KCMO crime news etc.

Third. Learn more about the urban core of KCMO. There is so much more to KCMO than Brookside and the Plaza. Tens of thousands of people live in urban areas of KCMO that could easily afford to live in Leawood but choose to live in urban areas of the city. Every time people put down the city as a crime infested hole, they are putting down the people that live in some of the nicest and most interesting areas of the metro. What happens at 39th and Troost at 2AM has very little impact on the vast majority of the 475,000 residents of the city.

Forth. Try to cooperate more with MO side cities and counties. KCMO and Jackson County are not perfect. They are far more complicated, urban, older and diverse places than an a 50 year old suburban county/city. They will have some inefficiencies and from time to time, even corruptness. That seems to come with the territory of larger more urban and more populated counties/cities. That does not mean you should ignore them and act like they don’t exist or everything about them is corrupt when it comes to regional needs. One of the main reasons this metro still does not have any sort of regional transit is due to the fact that the MO side has been trying to involve the KS side and the KS side simply will not cooperate and delays any progress. The MO side has finally said ********* KS, we will go at it alone. It’s about time. Same deal with a cultural district. Nearly every major city has some form of regional culture tax except KC. A culture district would help fund the Zoo, museums, stadiums, theaters etc. 95% of these attractions are in urban KCMO and JoCo can’t fathom the idea of sending KS taxes to KCMO. That’s all they see. They don’t see these as regional attractions till they want to use them. I think this is a huge cause of the friction in KC. They only way JoCo will even consider a culture tax is if they county get back what they put into it. Kind of defeats the purpose.

Lastly. Stop taking companies from KCMO. 30-40 years of luring companies across state line has been devastating. KCMO has at least a few times asked JoCo cities to stop feeding off of KCMO for economic development. They simply don’t want JoCo to use incentives to relocate a company from one part of the metro to another. Bring companies into JoCo form Denver or Dallas, not KCMO. JoCo has refused to agree to any sort of truce. A couple of years ago, JoCo leaders actually called a press conference to say they were all about metro corporation. The very next day it was announced the Overland Park was taking Quintiles from KCMO and they will be given major tax breaks to do so. KCMO does not go after metro companies. They entertained Applebee’s and put a proposal together to bring them to the P&L district and OP went nuts. Just the idea of getting a taste of their own medicine was enough to create major problems. I have spoken personally with people like Wayne Cauthen and Kay Barnes and off the record they don’t have to many good things to say about JoCo. Again friction.

Most of the roads in MO are fine especially considering that there is four times the roads and ten times the bridges on the MO side. People still say that the roads in MO are crap, when they are not.

Things like the KU/MU rivalry are just rivalries. But they can get nasty and bring out much of the above.

Generally if people would just lay off the comments, it would do wonders. You can’t read a KC Star article online without people (even admitting to be from JoCo) throwing punches at anything MO. “JoCo is where the money is”, Jackson County is all ghetto” etc.

Like I said, these are many of the reasons I have seen over a couple of decades of living in KC. Take it for what it’s worth. You can totally blow it off.

Or you can open your eyes and try to understand why there is so much resentment and try to do your part to correct the situation.

I would like to hear thoughts on this from both sides and ideas of how we can fix this. In all of the above, I didn’t call JoCo snobby or bland or freeloading or any other of the stereotypes it gets. I’m trying to offer constructive criticism and show people that may not see it how the county is sometimes viewed by people outside of the county. This may not even be just the MO side vs JoCo. I have heard many of the same comments from people from WyCo, Douglas and outstate Kansas.

So is this something we can truly debate or this just going to start a flame war?

[RjRobb2]

I have no issues with either side. We are one city, an invisible state line means very little. I live in KCMO and work in JOCO.

[Versatile]

I grew up in south Kansas City and i just attribute it to ego's. I have read on the Ks frum that person's living south of i think 103rd st in Joco think they are better than those north of their.Even though Mission Hills is north of the line. I have also read that those south of 135th st think they are beter than all the rest. I don't know how true that is.
When i was a teenager i had a girlfriend from JOCO and i definitely remember her and her friends always talking about where each family's money came from. Old money made you higher up on the scale.
We always new what a JOCO girl wanted when she came to see us.We just considered that she was slummin and we tried not to dissappoint them.

I really don't know the answer for sure.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by kcmo

For what it worth, this post is not directed at anybody on this forum. I am only trying to show the types of behavior that creates the friction between KS and MO. Let’s try to keep the KS vs MO stuff in this thread so we don’t ruin every thread. Yea, myself included!

I honestly think most of the friction is caused by Kansas side residents (even if it’s a tiny percent of the population).

I'm tempted to just stop reading right there.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by kcmo

First. There are many MO suburban areas that compare very well with JoCo suburbs and these areas have good schools.

Extolling the virtues of JoCo <> putting down MO suburbs.

Second. Don’t put down areas you know nothing about.

No kidding. Read that a few times yourself please.

Independence, Raytown etc are talked down by JoCo residents all the time.

Independence and Raytown are talked down by Liberty and Lee's Summit residents all the time too. It's not the greatest area of the metro.

Raytown is a comfortable, modest middle class suburb that is full of nice areas and is very comparable to much of northern JoCo.

I respectfully and completely disagree with this.

Independence has its share of problems, but the city also has a lot of nice middle class and upper class areas as well as a historic and charming downtown area. It doesn’t deserve the “meth” image it gets and KCTV5 (JoCo’s favorite station) needs to stop going out there and doing BS stories on pit bulls and what not.

They will stop about the same time they stop picking one KS school district whose superintendent is losing sleep over bungling his own budget and doing a story about how KS schools are making drastic cuts ...

They are also amazingly live in Indep when a pit-bull is lose in streets. Why don’t they do stories like this in KCK or Shawnee or Merriam?

Because pit bulls aren't allowed there?

Because that is their audience. KCTV5 is generally hated on the MO side as they are known as the “shock” station and are known on the MO side for catering to JoCo with KCMO crime news etc.

They all cater, they should all be taken with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of perspective.

Third. Learn more about the urban core of KCMO. There is so much more to KCMO than Brookside and the Plaza.

Not living there doesn't mean we don't know about it and enjoy it.

Every time people put down the city as a crime infested hole, they are putting down the people that live in some of the nicest and most interesting areas of the metro. What happens at 39th and Troost at 2AM has very little impact on the vast majority of the 475,000 residents of the city.

People from JoCo really aren't this stupid, kcmo. We're well aware of the nicer and not so nice parts of the city. Stop assuming we are lumping it all into one crime-infested hole. (Which I've never heard as a reference by the way.)

One of the main reasons this metro still does not have any sort of regional transit is due to the fact that the MO side has been trying to involve the KS side and the KS side simply will not cooperate and delays any progress. The MO side has finally said ********* KS, we will go at it alone.

Any transit system has to start with airport to downtown. It's a tough sell to get KS residents to pay for transit between two MO destinations. JoCo residents don't see a lot of value for themselves in transit. That's why we don't want to pay for it.

It’s about time. Same deal with a cultural district. Nearly every major city has some form of regional culture tax except KC. A culture district would help fund the Zoo, museums, stadiums, theaters etc. 95% of these attractions are in urban KCMO and JoCo can’t fathom the idea of sending KS taxes to KCMO. That’s all they see. They don’t see these as regional attractions till they want to use them. I think this is a huge cause of the friction in KC. They only way JoCo will even consider a culture tax is if they county get back what they put into it. Kind of defeats the purpose.

They want something for their money? They want a say in how it's spent??? How rude!

Lastly. Stop taking companies from KCMO. 30-40 years of luring companies across state line has been devastating.

It honestly seems to me that KCMO wants its cake and to eat it too. You want JoCo to send money with no strings for culture, transit, etc. After all, we're one big metro.

But a company move to JoCo? Hey! That's ours! Don't take our businesses away!

Nothing is stopping KCMO from offering incentives for economic developement. If Applebees is lured away, more power to you! But make up your minds! Are we one big metro or not???

Generally if people would just lay off the comments

Agreed. Like stop jumping on every possible chance to tell people to avoid JoCo.

Or you can open your eyes and try to understand why there is so much resentment and try to do your part to correct the situation.

Practice what ya preach, brother!

So is this something we can truly debate or this just going to start a flame war?

Of course it will! What would be the fun otherwise?!

[northbound74]

The ignorance towards Independence from people in other parts of the metro is astonishing.
Pit Bulls are illegal in Independence.
We have a very nice dog park in Sante Fe Park.
We have arguably the best indoor mall in the metro.
WE ARE GETTING HOCKEY!!!!!
Independence was one of the first to outlaw smoking in public places.
70% of Independence is very livable, and even extremely nice in many areas. The worst parts are west of Lee's Summit, north of 23rd. There are some really good areas in that region, but that's where most of the bad neighborhoods are. Look at it on a map, and you'll realize that it doesn't comprise a very large portion of the city.
Independence's schools are much, much better than they are given credit for.

Raytown is very much underrated, too.

But hey, I live in a third world city, with gravel roads, schools that don't give a usable education past 3rd grade, pit bulls run rampant, there are more non-running cars than running ones, meth is smoked by everyone (including those pit bulls)..... at least that's the impression people give....

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by northbound74

The ignorance towards Independence from people in other parts of the metro is astonishing.

Why is it astonishing? I could say the exact same thing about Leawood.

Leawood has great parks, great shopping. It's clean and nice and people take good care of their properties. The vast majority of people who live in Leawood are very nice people. Generous with their time and money, they care about their kids and their community.

But the impression many people give is that it's full of arrogant snobs who look down on anyone who doesn't live within a block of where they do. That they are afraid to leave their own little world because they think the rest of the metro is trash.

See ... it's all ridiculous. And it's all ignorance.

The solution, in this forum and beyond is to talk about what you know, and keep your preconceived opinions to yourself.

If you give an opinion based on here-say, then say so. Or say where your information comes from. Say for example, "I saw an article about school budget cuts. You might want to check into it." But don't say "JoCo schools are in a world of hurt."

People hear something negative about an area they've never been to or frequented and they assume it's true. Then it becomes self-fulfilling. If you expect people to look down you, then anyone who doesn't smile at you becomes a "snob". If you expect to encounter criminals, then you will be suspicious of everyone you see.

Both sides do this.

[MrsMo]

Quote:
Raytown is a comfortable, modest middle class suburb that is full of nice areas and is very comparable to much of northern JoCo.

I respectfully and completely disagree with this.

You know I am very tired of people putting Raytown down. I'm not happy here, with the city government, and the secondary schools are not what they were when I was in school 30 some years ago. But ya know, when I was younger and people would ask where I lived and I would say Raytown, they would raise their eyebrows and "Ooooooo, aren't you living nice". Hey, we moved from the Eastern US and my dad was told to get us in the Raytown school district, it is the best in the state of Missouri. (Think back to 1960) Yes, now Raytown is more urban, but it is still a nice area, convenient to downtown, and just about anywhere else in the metro area.
We live in a modest home, nice neighborhood. It is definitely a 60's suburb, but the homes have been kept up. DH is from KS but when we outgrew our first home in a very old section of Raytown, he wanted to stay in this area, I was ready for him to say to JOCO we go, but he didn't want to, so we bought 2 miles from our first home. Our plans were for our kids to go to Catholic High School so I wasn't worried about the schools. Due to unfortunate circumstances our kids had to go to public high school and we were so disgusted. After 8 years of a Catholic grade school we felt as if we threw them to the wolves.

Do not put an area down unless you know all about it first hand!!

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by MrsMo

You know I am very tired of people putting Raytown down.

Sorry if I offended you. I was disagreeing with "very comparable to much of northern JoCo."

But, see what I mean? Immediately, it is taken as "putting Raytown down." Raytown is what it is. You yourself described some of its shortcomings. I have nothing against Raytown per se. You seem happy there and I am happy for you.

But I am familiar with it, I am there often and I used to live in Northern JoCo. I simply would not consider them comparable.

Which one is "better"? I didn't say, that's too subjective. You just assumed I was saying, "JoCo is best and Raytown sucks."

[WiseOwlSaysHoot]

One of the primary issues that I have with the KS side is the aforementioned lack of contribution towards civic projects, as well as the unhealthy competition that detracts from downtown KC.

But really, I have a problem with suburbs in general - especially exurbs. The Kansas side just happens to embody all of the worst characteristics of suburbs and is home to the most sprawling exurbs in the metro.

A large part of my distaste for suburbs is due to the history of their origins and their impact on urban centers. I know that most people living in suburbs today didn't have anything to do with it, but these cities still stand as a symbol of the scourge of White Flight and the resulting devastation of Urban Renewal.

Before the advent of the suburbs, Kansas City had a remarkably dense and thriving urban core filled beautiful historic buildings and an extensive streetcar system. Suburban White Flight devastated the city.

Also suburbs are horrible for the environment. The sprawl makes public transportation difficult and forces everyone to drive miles for everything. Moreover, the McMansions and strip malls that are continually sprouting up devour natural resources. Suburbs embody unsustainable American consumerism.

Most suburbs are disturbingly homogenous (see previous paragraph re: White Flight). Segregation is not good for our culture. Living in the suburbs doesn't mean you are racist, but it just so happens that they are the areas that most racists prefer to call home.

That's the end of my rant. No offense meant towards any suburbanites. Plenty of good people live in the suburbs, and if that's what makes you happy, go for it. They're not for me, and I don't agree with what they embody.