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I am in Raytown with some frequency. I don't consider most it unsafe. But it is pretty run down. Not all of it, of course, but some very noticeable parts of it are.
That I notice this, doesn't make me stupid or ignorant. Just observant.
Almost all the "run down" areas are in KCMO sections that surround the city. Most of Blue Ridge Blvd, 87th etc are in KCMO. Most people think that anything east of 435, south of 70 and north of 470 is raytown.
Raytown itself is pretty nice as are the parts of KCMO to the northeast of the city till you get out a bit further like along US-40 which is quite blightend most of the way out to 470.
Raytown itself is simply a modest, built out suburb landlocked by KCMO with a relatively low crime rate, diverse racial population and decently maintained ranch and split level housing stock. It doesn't have the aesthetics of outer burbs like Lees Summit or OP nor the charm of Mission Hills, but most of it is comparable to places like Mission, Roeland Park, Merriam, Gladstone and older parts of Lenexa, Shawnee and far northern OP. Yet you will never hear Raytown mentioned in the same sentance as any of those places. The same can be said for Grandview. Raytown is a perfectly fine middle class, blue collar inner ring suburb though.
Raytown's biggest problems are "some" of the areas of KCMO that surround it are not so great and most of those areas are what people see when going to the stadiums.
The Bannister Mall area's collapse is directly tied to Raytown's Image.
The other problem is the Raytown school district reaches into those same areas of KCMO, (even west of 435) and anytime you introduce demographics like that into a more suburban area, overall stats will be lower compared to districts like Lee's Summit or Blue Valley where the demographics are far less diverse. If you have three "A" students and one "D" student, your district gets a B. LS or BV will have 3-4 "A" students (maybe a B student), so the district gets an A. But are the A students in Raytown really all that different than the A studends in BV or LS?
Also, 350 has a new super walmart and HyVee re-development, the city is a leader in bringing commuter rail to eastern Jackson County and would probably see a major rebirth if that ever materialized.
Almost all the "run down" areas are in KCMO sections that surround the city. Most of Blue Ridge Blvd, 87th etc are in KCMO. Most people think that anything east of 435, south of 70 and north of 470 is raytown.
The areas to which I was referring are in Raytown. Sorry.
There are some nice homes and neighborhoods. There are also some very visible, quite run down intersections. It's unfortunate that these lend to the reputation more so than the nicer parts.
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Raytown itself is simply a modest, built out suburb landlocked by KCMO with relatively low crime rate, diverse racial population and decently maintained housing stock. It doesn't have the asthetics of outer burbs like Lees Summit or OP nor the charm of Mission Hills, but most of it is comparable to places like Mission, Roeland Park, Merriam, Gladstone and older parts of Lenexa, Shawnee and far northern OP. Yet you will never hear Raytown mentioned in the same sentance as any of those places.
Having recently been to both Raytown and Mission as well as Roeland Park and Merriam, I would disagree that there is much comparision. By picking certain spots, yes, I could find similarities. In general, not at all IMO.
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Raytown's biggest problems are "some" of the areas of KCMO that surround it are not so great and most of those areas are what people see when going to the stadiums.
I don't go to the stadiums. I go to Raytown. So my comments are limited to that area by itself. Some parts are fine. But they are unfortunately overshadowed by the parts that are not. Thus the reputation.
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The other problem is the Raytown school district reaches into those same areas of KCMO, (even west of 435) and anytime you introduce demographics like that into a more suburban area, overall stats will be lower compared to districts like Lee's Summit or Blue Valley where the demographics are far less diverse.
I agree the school districts play a major role. But above you compared Raytown to Mission, Roeland Park and Merriam ... which manage to have great schools despite "comparable" (according to you) demographics.
So which is it???
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350 has a new super walmart and HyVee re-development, the city is a leader in bringing commuter rail to eastern Jackson County and would probably see a major rebirth if that ever materialized.
Improving the schools would do far more than light rail for improving Jackson County in general.
aragx6, you have had 5 people say to you, "Don't shop at Sunfresh because you will be murdered!" Is that an exact quote from 5 different people? Or is it how you personally have perceived their comments about feeling safer shopping somewhere else. I just don't buy it, sorry.
But I would not be surprised that comments in general like that can get annoying. I'm sure they do. I know the feeling! Kind of like this one:
I don't know anyone who thinks that. I wonder where all these people are of whom you and others speak. I've lived in various JoCo neighborhoods for 20 years and I've never met any of them.
If there are suburbanites who exaggerate the dangers of living a more urban lifestyle ... to the point that it's really annoying. Is it not also reasonable for suburbanites to tire of way you portray us???
You don't have to believe it for it to be true. I am telling you this exact thing has happened at least five times. Some form of this has happened more like a dozen times.
I think there must be a school for Sunfresh bashing because it happens pretty much the same every time.
First they start with it being a "terrible" grocery store. I ask why and say we shop there all the time and the only thing I have issues with is their produce (which is why we go to the farmer's market most of the time anyway).
Once they realize "I'm calling their bluff" they bring up some shooting or murder or another -- never the same specifics, but they're all older than I've been living here. They say it isn't safe, that they know a guy who knew somebody who ... and that I will/might/probably (depending on the veracity of the individual) be mudered/shot/killed/stabbed etc.
So I pretty much shrug my shoulders and/or throw them a bone such as "I don't walk there by myself at night" or "There's a lot of types of people who shop there." That usually moves them on to bashing the people -- talking about how ghetto/trashy/scary/ugly/messed up they all are.
Some people there are weird, sometimes they're even a little scary, but there's also numerous "normal" folks and a cop is always around.
Samantha, I didn't just show up to these forums today to be a troll or anything. I've been a reliable poster on C-D for a long time. I'm a nice girl. I don't make up stories for the hell of it. You don't live (or I think work) around here, but I'd be shocked if others who do haven't heard the same things about that Sunfresh. It's downright bizarre.
As a rule, kids want to do the opposite of what their parents did. So you've got this massive group of 20- and 30-somethings who grew up in the suburbs and went off to college. Once they graduated, they didn't want to move back to what they were used to, wanted to pull away from their parents, so they moved into the cities -- cities that were, as a whole, already beginning to come out of the downward spiral they had dealt with during the 70s and much of the 80s.
These new city residents were as visceral in their hatred for the 'burbs as they were in their love of the city. They began to change the tone of the news stories about the city, bought up houses for nothing and fixed them up, and over time became true citizens of their neighborhoods. Those early city adopters made it seem possible and easier for those who followed behind them to do the same thing.
Kansas City, as a whole it seems, has been slower with this than other places like Chicago. i think the main reason for this is that the suburbs had gotten so expensive in Chicago that people really stepped back and thought about if it was really worth it. You can still build a big house in a new suburb here for a good price and be relatively close to the city. In Chicago, if you wanted a similar lifestyle you'd need at least twice as much money and your commute would be at least 3 times as long.
You don't have to believe it for it to be true. I am telling you this exact thing has happened at least five times. Some form of this has happened more like a dozen times.
I think there must be a school for Sunfresh bashing because it happens pretty much the same every time.
First they start with it being a "terrible" grocery store. I ask why and say we shop there all the time and the only thing I have issues with is their produce (which is why we go to the farmer's market most of the time anyway).
Once they realize "I'm calling their bluff" they bring up some shooting or murder or another -- never the same specifics, but they're all older than I've been living here. They say it isn't safe, that they know a guy who knew somebody who ... and that I will/might/probably (depending on the veracity of the individual) be mudered/shot/killed/stabbed etc.
So I pretty much shrug my shoulders and/or throw them a bone such as "I don't walk there by myself at night" or "There's a lot of types of people who shop there." That usually moves them on to bashing the people -- talking about how ghetto/trashy/scary/ugly/messed up they all are.
Some people there are weird, sometimes they're even a little scary, but there's also numerous "normal" folks and a cop is always around.
Samantha, I didn't just show up to these forums today to be a troll or anything. I've been a reliable poster on C-D for a long time. I'm a nice girl. I don't make up stories for the hell of it. You don't live (or I think work) around here, but I'd be shocked if others who do haven't heard the same things about that Sunfresh. It's downright bizarre.
Samantha seems to think a lot of things are never really said. She doesn't believe anyone from the burbs ever talks bad about the urban core, she doesn't believe JoCo residents diss KC as a whole and call it ghetto....
Some people there are weird, sometimes they're even a little scary, but there's also numerous "normal" folks and a cop is always around.
Samantha, I didn't just show up to these forums today to be a troll or anything. I've been a reliable poster on C-D for a long time. I'm a nice girl. I don't make up stories for the hell of it. You don't live (or I think work) around here, but I'd be shocked if others who do haven't heard the same things about that Sunfresh. It's downright bizarre.
I'm not accusing you of being a troll, just of exaggerating a tad. But I'm not in your shoes, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure people do make comments. People yap all the time.
But with what you have noted yourself above, when compared to the bland and boring 'burbs, is it surprising that there would be a noticeable difference in general safety that people might comment on?
These new city residents were as visceral in their hatred for the 'burbs as they were in their love of the city. They began to change the tone of the news stories about the city, bought up houses for nothing and fixed them up, and over time became true citizens of their neighborhoods. Those early city adopters made it seem possible and easier for those who followed behind them to do the same thing.
You forget the last part: Then they had kids and moved back to the suburbs ...
I'm just teasing you. But one of the major things that has held KC back in the trend back toward more urban lifestyles is the school district.
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Originally Posted by skrizzle
Samantha seems to think a lot of things are never really said. She doesn't believe anyone from the burbs ever talks bad about the urban core, she doesn't believe JoCo residents diss KC as a whole and call it ghetto....
She prefers to be asked her opinion as opposed to having it stated for her. She's funny like that.
Above is another of the many gross exaggerations that get so tiring around here. It is this with which I have a problem. I have heard people from JoCo AND from the Northland and other MO burbs say negative things about the city. I do not hear them from anyone with much frequency and when I do hear them, if pressed, the person will usually admit their own biases.
I don't hear JoCo people bashing KCMO any more nor any less than I hear KCMO people bashing JoCo. People yammer, it's nothing new and certainly nothing to take personally.
And that's what surprises me! If you go back you'll see all these comments about Westport and Sunfresh are made not just by JoCo-ers like my future mother in law. It's someone who lives at 40th and Clark, someone who lives at the Plaza, someone who lives in Waldo, someone who lives in the Northland, someone who lives in Lee's Summit -- all of these people are talking about how dangerous my neighborhood supposedly is, and they're simply wrong.
Unlike some people, I'm not laying all the blame on any particular area of this metro. As I said before, it seems like a lot of people from all over the metro. And that is why I posted my original post in this thread. Not what I hate about Overland Park or what I hate about Lee's Summit. It's what I hate about Kansas City.
I also looove a lot of stuff about this city, and I wouldn't tell someone to definitely not move here because of this attitude, but it does have an effect on my thoughts of this place.
Just had to mention -- A cop is in the store because the store pays him to make sure people aren't shoplifting and that nothing gets out of hand (which I've never seen happen). I don't want you to think there's always a cop there because they're always getting called there. That's an entirely different story. The Cosentino's in Brookside has the exact same patrol set up and I never hear a word about that place.
You and I agree about more things than you'd think Samantha.
As far as schools: I am disappointed to see that KC doesn't seem (in my admittedly limited research on the subject) to have as strong of a magnet/charter program as does St. Louis or Chicago. If your kid can test in, there are some ridiculously good selective enrollment magnets in St. Louis (the best high school in the state is Metro Classical) and even if they can't, there are some very solid general matriculation options.
It also appears that the parochial school system is much stronger in St. Louis (which shouldn't be much of a surprise I guess given the stregth of the St. Louis Archdiocese).
Fixing neighborhood schools from the ground up is a worthy goal, and I know in Chicago there were stories about neighborhoods who had parents who "turned" their schools through the power of numbers and sheer brute force, but it's an uphill battle rife with disappointments and setbacks.
A well funded and provided for magnet/charter system from the top-down can act as a solid way to keep young families in the city long enough to affect that bottom-up change that is really, eventually, needed.
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