How liberal is Lawrence? How sane and down-to-earth? (Kansas City, Topeka: home, school)

[ogre]

I'm looking seriously at KU as a possibility for grad school. I'm interested in learning something about the feel and character of Lawrence. This would not be the central criterion in determining my choice of a grad school, but it would be helpful to know what life around me would be like if I did find my way to KU.

I've read a few posts that describe Lawrence as liberal--for Kansas. What does this mean? As in, how would Lawrence compare to well-known bastions of radicalism in other parts of the country, like Cambridge (MA), Madison, Berkley, Boulder? Or to Iowa City, Champaing-Urbana, Ann Arbor, or Bloomington (IN)?

Also, obviously Lawrence will have a lot of college-town character, but then, there are college towns and college towns. I began my return to undergraduate education at a university similar in size to KU, in a town with less than 1/5 the population of Lawrence. The large university absolutely dominated so small a town. The town really had nothing else at all going on. There was hardly anywhere in town where you wouldn't feel the presence of noisy college kids, and the downtown streets at night were often taken over by hordes of drunken students. Downtown also was dominated by bars and coffee shops and a radical bookstore, with very few of the kinds of businesses regular working people patronize in their everyday lives. Is Lawrence like this, or does it strike a happy medium between college town and mainstream town? Since Lawrence has the population of a small city, I'd think that to some degree it could absorb the effects of the university's presence. Am I picturing correctly? Are there folks in Lawrence who have lives outside the university?

I'm open enough not to like an ultra-rednecky atmosphere. (I can rub elbows with the ol' boys if I do find myself in their company, but I won't be completely comfortable.) On the other hand, I'm basically a pretty conservative guy, at least mainstream enough to be uncomfortable in areas where in general people are hostile toward anyone who doesn't lean way far to the left. How would I most likely feel about Lawrence?

At their best, college towns are exuberant places, and centers of innovative thought, with more cultural amenities and entertainment than most towns or cities their size. At their worst, they are so "liberal" that in fact they are not liberal at all, in the true sense of the word, but are narrow-minded indoctrination centers for political correctness, so blindly supportive of anyone outside the mainstream that they become overrun with all manner of freakish characters, where after a while you get the feeling that you've lost all connection to the real world. Where does Lawrence fit on the continuum between these extremes?

[rasperin]

While Lawrence is the blue dot of kansas, you have mostly people from Johnson County going there. These people have parent who are upper middle upper class so tend to be Red because there parents are or because the agree with the republican points and views. Don't get me wrong I'm one of your strong liberals (this is no place to debate politics) and if the opportunity provides in person I would so long as you were comfortable with it. But you must be open-minded, if you are a staunch republican and a "I'm right and you are wrong" with no facts to support your feelings you will be frowned upon. Really though you already have a lot of republicans there and for hippies (yes there are some washed up ones) there are some events of like the same 6 anti-bush protestors. It's a good laugh to look at then you go on.

As far as red necks, they are far and few between in lawrence, go farther west and their numbers grow expodentially. 30 miles and it's a 50/50 scenario, 90 miles and it's a 9 to 1 ratio.

[Mathguy]

I would compare lawrence to University of IL champ\urbana...maybe a little more moderate even. (Considering most higer ed leans hard left.)

The western part of kansas is heavy republican....closer to the burbs (like lawrence) and you get a much more moderate group. I'd point out that KS has a Dem governor and Senator....so on that I'd rest my case.

I think you'd be pretty happy there.

[2005hawk]

[quote=ogre;1471275]I'm looking seriously at KU as a possibility for grad school. I'm interested in learning something about the feel and character of Lawrence. This would not be the central criterion in determining my choice of a grad school, but it would be helpful to know what life around me would be like if I did find my way to KU.

I've read a few posts that describe Lawrence as liberal--for Kansas. What does this mean? As in, how would Lawrence compare to well-known bastions of radicalism in other parts of the country, like Cambridge (MA), Madison, Berkley, Boulder? Or to Iowa City, Champaing-Urbana, Ann Arbor, or Bloomington (IN)?

I would say that Lawrence would fit nicely in the same category with Bloomington and Iowa City, perhaps with Champaign-Urbana. Its not quite as liberal as Boulder - we're not as coastal as Boulder. Nor is it similar to Berkeley. While not on your list, I find that its similar to Fort Collins minus the mountains. Lawrence generally considers itself to be exclusive of the state of Kansas. By this I mean, Lawrence rarely compares itself to other Kansas cities, but rather to the cities you've listed and to other "progressive" cities across the country. Meanwhile the rest of the state can be quite conservative.[/b]

Also, obviously Lawrence will have a lot of college-town character, but then, there are college towns and college towns. I began my return to undergraduate education at a university similar in size to KU, in a town with less than 1/5 the population of Lawrence. The large university absolutely dominated so small a town. The town really had nothing else at all going on. There was hardly anywhere in town where you wouldn't feel the presence of noisy college kids, and the downtown streets at night were often taken over by hordes of drunken students. Downtown also was dominated by bars and coffee shops and a radical bookstore, with very few of the kinds of businesses regular working people patronize in their everyday lives. Is Lawrence like this, or does it strike a happy medium between college town and mainstream town? Since Lawrence has the population of a small city, I'd think that to some degree it could absorb the effects of the university's presence. Am I picturing correctly? Are there folks in Lawrence who have lives outside the university?

Lawrence has grown considerably, and over time has become less and less connected to KU, however the town is still very much a college town. I would no longer say it is "dominated" by KU. Most people, even if they are not affiliated with KU as a student, faculty or employee, are in some way connected to the university. Many alumni live here as well. This is starting to change some as the City continues to grow. There are certain areas of town where the student population dominates non-student population. There are many people who commute to work in Topeka or Kansas City but make their home in Lawrence and in fact, most of the recent growth is a result of this commuting pattern. I would say its close to striking a happy medium as you put it, between a college town in its truest sense and a "mainstream" town.

I'm open enough not to like an ultra-rednecky atmosphere. (I can rub elbows with the ol' boys if I do find myself in their company, but I won't be completely comfortable.) On the other hand, I'm basically a pretty conservative guy, at least mainstream enough to be uncomfortable in areas where in general people are hostile toward anyone who doesn't lean way far to the left. How would I most likely feel about Lawrence?

One thing decidedly un-Kansas about Lawrence is its relative lack of rural or country atmosphere. It is quite urban and somewhat cosmopolitan, which is a characteristic that is obviously influenced by KU. Being that KU is in fact, the University of Kansas, it does attract students from throughout the state and therefore, there are a fair amount of conservative, especially moderately conservative folks in town. Most of the liberal population are those attracted to Lawrence from out of state or locals.

[ogre]

Lawrence is sounding nice. It sounds like a much more moderate place than the one college town I've been intimately familiar with. That was a place where you were basically expected to be--and under a lot of pressure to be--very far left, in a narrow, politically correct sense, nothing like even mainstream liberals. Anyone who was too open about not agreeing with this narrow, rigid outlook risked being shunned at best and met with open hostility at worst. Also, lots of radicals, who were not the peace-and-love flower children people associate with the '60's, but seemed to be seething with hatred, and seemed to feel that violence and aggression were perfectly all right, as long as they were used in the name of destroying anything remotely conventional. Really a sick place in my view. Lawrence sounds much more balanced and moderate, which is good.

A lot of what you've all said dealt with the politics in Lawrence. I'm also interested in learning about the look and feel of the town, especially the downtown. I've got a deep affection for real hometown kinds of places, where the downtowns are active and prosperous, and it's not unusual to encounter people you know as you stroll the downtown sidewalks. College town kinds of businesses, like coffee shops and funky bars, are fine, but does downtown Lawrence also have the kinds of stores that serve basic everyday needs? Banks, drugstores, clothing and shoe stores, barber shops and hair stylists, mainstream bookstores, record/disc stores, maybe a discount department store? Not necessarily exactly these businesses, but you get the idea. Or are these places found mostly at malls on the west side, which I understand has a more suburban feel? Any good greasy spoons downtown?

Just wondering. I'm still whittling down my list of grad school possibilities, but KU is looking like a serious candidate, so it would be good to get a feel for as much detail as possible about a town where I might very well live for two or three years.

Thanks again everyone for the info you've provided here. Sounds good. Take care.

[GraniteStater]

On-line news:
LJWorld.com - Lawrence, Kansas
Some history surrounding Lawrence:
Bleeding Kansas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[GraniteStater]

Lawrence weather from Topeka NWS.

[GraniteStater]

Lawrence city map



Another Map showing the location of the Kansas River in Lawrence.

[GraniteStater]

Other Pictures of Lawrence:
Douglas County Courthouse


Kansas River: Above Flood Stage this past May.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by ogre

Lawrence is sounding nice. It sounds like a much more moderate place than the one college town I've been intimately familiar with. That was a place where you were basically expected to be--and under a lot of pressure to be--very far left, in a narrow, politically correct sense, nothing like even mainstream liberals. Anyone who was too open about not agreeing with this narrow, rigid outlook risked being shunned at best and met with open hostility at worst. Also, lots of radicals, who were not the peace-and-love flower children people associate with the '60's, but seemed to be seething with hatred, and seemed to feel that violence and aggression were perfectly all right, as long as they were used in the name of destroying anything remotely conventional. Really a sick place in my view. Lawrence sounds much more balanced and moderate, which is good.

A lot of what you've all said dealt with the politics in Lawrence. I'm also interested in learning about the look and feel of the town, especially the downtown. I've got a deep affection for real hometown kinds of places, where the downtowns are active and prosperous, and it's not unusual to encounter people you know as you stroll the downtown sidewalks. College town kinds of businesses, like coffee shops and funky bars, are fine, but does downtown Lawrence also have the kinds of stores that serve basic everyday needs? Banks, drugstores, clothing and shoe stores, barber shops and hair stylists, mainstream bookstores, record/disc stores, maybe a discount department store? Not necessarily exactly these businesses, but you get the idea. Or are these places found mostly at malls on the west side, which I understand has a more suburban feel? Any good greasy spoons downtown?

Just wondering. I'm still whittling down my list of grad school possibilities, but KU is looking like a serious candidate, so it would be good to get a feel for as much detail as possible about a town where I might very well live for two or three years.

Thanks again everyone for the info you've provided here. Sounds good. Take care.

Yeah, I met *those types* in college too. Sounds like you went somewhere like UW Madison etc.

You can find people like that anywhere, I had a guy in college screaming at me about how the govt. invented HIV to kill black people because he'd gone to a lecture by a *doctor* about it. I said that I didn't know, I had not seen the facts....upon which he called me a racist.

I had a girl tell me that if my girlfriend and I had a few beers and then had sex that I was a rapist. (My girlfriend wasn't though for some inscrutable reason she couldn't quite convey). My guess was she'd been date raped by some scumbag and had some sort of mild mental illness as a result of the trauma....but she fit right in.

Evenutally they graduate and come to realize that no one wants to pay them to write papers about why Karl Marx was really the second coming and that white males are responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs and solar flares. Once away from their lunatic support group many come to their senses as they mature into the workplace. (As do we all )