State Law - Septic Tanks - Old Order Amish? (Fort Scott: daycare, houses)

[AnywhereElse]

In our county, we have about 22 Amish families and some "chosen" have decided to make a big issue of the fact that they use outhouses and this is against the law in Kansas. This is an order of the oldest, most conservative Amish and they do not use running water. The "chosen" want them to have septic tanks and too bad that requirement doesn't effect the stinky cattle feedlots in the county in the same area. Now, the interesting thing is that this has went on for 7 years and now that the land is cleaned up and being farmed, it has become an issue. I believe someone at the meeting gave a quote of $1,000 to put in a septic tank which is a lot of money for these families to each pay thus maybe providing encouragement to move on. With the exception of the "chosen" there is not an issue with the Amish. Does anyone in Kansas or any other state that might read this know how other states and areas address this issue? I am going to search the internet next week to see if I can come up with what is done. Funny though that 7 years passed before it became an issue.

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

In our county, we have about 22 Amish families and some "chosen" have decided to make a big issue of the fact that they use outhouses and this is against the law in Kansas. This is an order of the oldest, most conservative Amish and they do not use running water. The "chosen" want them to have septic tanks and too bad that requirement doesn't effect the stinky cattle feedlots in the county in the same area. Now, the interesting thing is that this has went on for 7 years and now that the land is cleaned up and being farmed, it has become an issue. I believe someone at the meeting gave a quote of $1,000 to put in a septic tank which is a lot of money for these families to each pay thus maybe providing encouragement to move on. With the exception of the "chosen" there is not an issue with the Amish. Does anyone in Kansas or any other state that might read this know how other states and areas address this issue? I am going to search the internet next week to see if I can come up with what is done. Funny though that 7 years passed before it became an issue.

Some people feel chosen to just get in other peoples faces because it gives them a feeling of power in their otherwise powerless lives.

There is nothing to move on about, the old order Amish aren't hurting anyone by having an outhouse in the middle of a 300 acre farm and I would not doubt some of the chosen who took up the torch to make it an issue live 50 miles from the nearest farm.

[MOKAN]

Fort Scott Tribune: Local News: Commissioners, Amish discuss complaints (06/02/12)

Seriously. Unless they're causing a problem like dumping their waste into the creeks, the Marmaton or Little Osage rivers, what's the big deal?

BUT, I do wonder what they do with their waste.

I noticed the article also said residents have complained about the Amish not adhering to traffic regulations too. If they are anything like those in Oklahoma, then they must be driving tractors down the shoulders. But if they're really an order of the oldest, most conservative, maybe they're actually using horse and buggies?

[AnywhereElse]

The Amish are using outhouses and traditionally, you dig a large, deep hole to sit the outhouse on and when it reaches capacity, you dig another hole and place the outhouse on that hole using the dirt from the new hole to fill in the old hole. It is a pretty sanitary thing in reality versus weeping septic tanks.

Believe it or not, they (this is like 3 people who feel important) want the Amish to get license plates for their buggies or so I hear. Also, something about the buggies digging into the road but you should see what the farm machinery do to the roads especially when they bring them into town! This is the oldest order of the Amish and they do not use tractors.

As it turns out, the County has non-conforming toilets in 3 parks so it should be interesting. Rules here don't apply to everyone equally, not even close so I suppose that is a mute point.

[zman0457]

It seems you're a great defender of rights for people whose peculiar customs appear to be from the 19th Century, but not for people whose sexual orientation is peculiar to you. I say let the Amish live their archaic existence if they so choose, just as the LGBT community should not have their rights infringed upon by religious zealots.

[AnywhereElse]

Originally Posted by zman0457

It seems you're a great defender of rights for people whose peculiar customs appear to be from the 19th Century, but not for people whose sexual orientation is peculiar to you. I say let the Amish live their archaic existence if they so choose, just as the LGBT community should not have their rights infringed upon by religious zealots.

Comparing the Amish to the LGBT community is really a stretch. It is not like they are on the property of the LGBT stopping them from doing things considered unhealthy - check the stats! My son was in a day center and actions there lead to my research on the LGBT community. I would never, ever have someone from the LGBT working with my son and that is my choice. I don't want to live in a city where people that have part male and part female anatomy (they will always be male or female based on their chromosomes) are allowed in the public restrooms, locker rooms and showers and that is my choice. I was a member of the military and while you might be able to fool some people about the tactics, you won't be fooling me. Members of that community were considered mentally ill for more reasons than the sexual acts performed and 1/3 of all pedophiles identify as homosexual while they make up about 2 or 3 % of the total population. The Amish stay out of my face and don't try to force me to accept their choices which is more than I can about the LGBT community. LGBT ordinances will continue to be voted down. Family and caring about who makes contact with our children will continue to be a priority now and in the future. Sexual activities have nothing to do with toileting activities, well, unless you lose your ability to hold fecal matter because of abuse to that system!

[Hueffenhardt]

Anywhere Else,

I am so sorry to hear that your son was molested. That is truly awful. It is shameful what the perpetrator did.

However, it is wrong to disparage the LGBT community for what an individual did. Your stats are not correct. From here:

The empirical research does not show that gay or bisexual men are any more likely than heterosexual men to molest children. This is not to argue that homosexual and bisexual men never molest children. But there is no scientific basis for asserting that they are more likely than heterosexual men to do so. And, as explained above, many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.

I encourage all to read the scientific article linked to above and posted on the UC Davis website. In addition to reporting on research that shows gays and bi-sexuals are not more likely to molest children, it critiques the "one study (Erickson et al., 1988) [that] might be interpreted as supporting the FRC argument [by pointing out] it failed to detail its measurement procedures and did not differentiate bisexual from homosexual offenders".

[AnywhereElse]

Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt

Anywhere Else,

I am so sorry to hear that your son was molested. That is truly awful. It is shameful what the perpetrator did.

However, it is wrong to disparage the LGBT community for what an individual did. Your stats are not correct. From here:



I encourage all to read the scientific article linked to above and posted on the UC Davis website. In addition to reporting on research that shows gays and bi-sexuals are not more likely to molest children, it critiques the "one study (Erickson et al., 1988) [that] might be interpreted as supporting the FRC argument [by pointing out] it failed to detail its measurement procedures and did not differentiate bisexual from homosexual offenders".

But, I read many articles which I did not bookmark but pulled this up as an example: Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse I am not judging based on one individual. I have lived a long time and seen more than most. My son is actually an adult: Homosexual Rape » Americans for Truth When I was in the military, a young female was raped in our day room by homosexuals and it left her feeling unsafe everywhere and she had to be discharged.

***Good news: I am actually maybe making headway on the outhouse issue though as I think I may have finally reached the right state agency and it looks like the state has a composting expert and a composting outhouse looks like it would work although that doesn't mean that our county would go for it. On another website, the topic has become "why I hate the Amish", seriously, just what I thought the issue was.

[Hueffenhardt]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

But, I read many articles which I did not bookmark but pulled this up as an example: Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse I am not judging based on one individual. I have lived a long time and seen more than most. My son is actually an adult: Homosexual Rape » Americans for Truth When I was in the military, a young female was raped in our day room by homosexuals and it left her feeling unsafe everywhere and she had to be discharged.

The first article you linked to is from as biased a source as they come: the Family Research Council - Advancing Faith, Family, and Freedom. If you read the scientific article I posted, you saw that it directly addressed the articles the FRC cites as support for its views and calls the FRC out by name.

The second article you linked to is yet another FRC article.

The science is not divided. It is clear to the scientific community from the empirical research that gays are not more likely to molest than straights.

I really don't like organizations that exist for the sole purpose of confusing people as to what the science actually says. They try to give legitimacy to their bigoted opinions by distorting and misreporting.

[Proterra]

You're a bigot...

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

Comparing the Amish to the LGBT community is really a stretch. It is not like they are on the property of the LGBT stopping them from doing things considered unhealthy - check the stats! My son was in a day center and actions there lead to my research on the LGBT community. I would never, ever have someone from the LGBT working with my son and that is my choice. I don't want to live in a city where people that have part male and part female anatomy (they will always be male or female based on their chromosomes) are allowed in the public restrooms, locker rooms and showers and that is my choice. I was a member of the military and while you might be able to fool some people about the tactics, you won't be fooling me. Members of that community were considered mentally ill for more reasons than the sexual acts performed and 1/3 of all pedophiles identify as homosexual while they make up about 2 or 3 % of the total population. The Amish stay out of my face and don't try to force me to accept their choices which is more than I can about the LGBT community. LGBT ordinances will continue to be voted down. Family and caring about who makes contact with our children will continue to be a priority now and in the future. Sexual activities have nothing to do with toileting activities, well, unless you lose your ability to hold fecal matter because of abuse to that system!

Why don't you just replace LGBT with the word "Black", "Jew" or, for all I care, "Mentally disabled"

Then read it again. If you still think it's not bigotry what you just posted, just imagine your daycare saying that they won't take your son, as he might drool upon other children. You would take them to court, right? Or at the very least make a sort of scandal about this... Still, you seem totally denying people their civil rights based on their sexual orientation, or how they feel about their bodies. Surprises me that you haven't used the word "*******" to refer to them but kept it with LGBT.