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Kansas is a good state. (I lived there during my high school years.) Kansans are good people.
If I didn't think so, I wouldn't give a rip about what the Brownback administration is doing to turn the state into an economic disaster area. But in reality, I do give a rip, and so do a lot of other people. Even the New York Times has noticed Topeka's way-out-of-wack priorities:
But the reason I'm posting this in the Kansas City forum, is that KCMO, along with the schoolchildren in the state of Kansas, is one of the victims of Brownback's mad scientist tax-cut faux-growth experiment. The same state that pinches pennies from needy classrooms is driving dump trucks full of benjamins up to wealthy corporations and begging them to re-locate a few miles across the state line. And when they do, it results in no new tax revenue for Kansas (at least not for many years) and virtually no new residents. Additionally, it contributes to sprawl which increases traffic and pollution, and reduces the state's valuable natural resources, while also adding to the potential urban blight across the state line.
Forgive me for the unsavory comparison, but it brings to mind a father who steals from his kid's piggy bank to pay his brother's wife to sleep with him, and then she gives him an STD. Everyone loses.
Again, I am not anti-Kansas, or anti-Republican. But I am anti-Brownback and I'd like to hear a single solid argument about why his policy of bleeding the public schools (and a lot of other public services) dry in order to poach Missouri business is good for anybody.
I read this article and was going to post it here. KCMO is an interesting metro area to study. It probably has the most fierce competition among any metro area in the US above one million. The fight across state lines is interesting. How has this recent economic disaster that the Republicans caused for Kansas done for the metro? I read that the Missouri side is now gaining more jobs than the Kansas side, so are you seeing some migration of people over to the Missouri side now (comparing housing starts on one side vs the other)? Have any companies been considering a move to the MO side? It will be really interesting to see what will happen if the education cuts continue to happen. Seems the MO side is more stable.
I read this article and was going to post it here. KCMO is an interesting metro area to study. It probably has the most fierce competition among any metro area in the US above one million. The fight across state lines is interesting. How has this recent economic disaster that the Republicans caused for Kansas done for the metro? I read that the Missouri side is now gaining more jobs than the Kansas side, so are you seeing some migration of people over to the Missouri side now (comparing housing starts on one side vs the other)? Have any companies been considering a move to the MO side? It will be really interesting to see what will happen if the education cuts continue to happen. Seems the MO side is more stable.
I suppose the KC metro does make for an interesting case study in economics. One thing to note, is that job growth on the Missouri side may or may not result in population growth on the Missouri side. Tons of people commute across the state line, a pattern which is supported by the lack of any physical or financial barriers (bridges or tolls) to doing so, for most people.
I assume some of your questions could be answered by looking at the stats right here on City Data.
Some companies have moved to the Missouri side, yes. But Kansas' problems are still too fresh to result in anything you could call a "migration".
The rub is this: Even though the state of Kansas is looking worse and worse, Johnson County (the source of the trouble for KCMO) is still in pretty good shape. This is largely due to the fact that the state will make almost any sacrifice to prop up Johnson County, as if it's their last hope for serious economic growth. So when companies decide which side of the state line to exist on, and families decide which side of the state line to live on, the larger problems of Kansas usually don't factor in. Because Johnson County (along with its three wealthy school districts) still seems relatively healthy.
But if the state continues on its current trajectory, Johnson County's healthy days are numbered.
Kansans voted for Brownback TWICE. They really should have known better and have no one to blame but themselves now. Yes, it will end up hurting JOCO and it already has. It truly is crony corporatism gone awry with the majority of the taxpayers socializing the wealthy whose tax rates were lowered even further. Brownback is the worst example of a neo-conservative, nothing like what the Republican party was like many decades ago.
Until Kansas City Missouri's school district is accredited, I don't really think there is any competition with Johnson County, Kansas. Shawnee Mission and Blue Valley schools are still among the top in the nation. So I don't see why people from MISSOURI try to bash Kansas and talk about how Kansas schools are going to decline when Kansas City Missouri schools have been a colossal failure for years. I think they should worry about their own failed school district instead of badmouthing Kansas.
And as much talk as there is about Kansas being an "economic failure" - Missouri wasn't able to pay tax refunds last year on a timely basis. They had to wait until revenue came in to be able to give tax refunds. That sounds to me like they have a huge cash flow problem. Kansas was able to issue tax refunds. Kansas' roads are so much better than Missouri's. A far greater percentage of Missourians are on the public dole with food stamps, subsidized housing, etc. than Kansans. Kansas unemployment is among the lowest in the nation. So I am thinking it is Missouri, not Kansas, that has an economic failure somewhere.
A lot of the talk against Brownback is purely political.
Until Kansas City Missouri's school district is accredited, I don't really think there is any competition with Johnson County, Kansas. Shawnee Mission and Blue Valley schools are still among the top in the nation. So I don't see why people from MISSOURI try to bash Kansas and talk about how Kansas schools are going to decline when Kansas City Missouri schools have been a colossal failure for years. I think they should worry about their own failed school district instead of badmouthing Kansas.
And as much talk as there is about Kansas being an "economic failure" - Missouri wasn't able to pay tax refunds last year on a timely basis. They had to wait until revenue came in to be able to give tax refunds. That sounds to me like they have a huge cash flow problem. Kansas was able to issue tax refunds. Kansas' roads are so much better than Missouri's. A far greater percentage of Missourians are on the public dole with food stamps, subsidized housing, etc. than Kansans. Kansas unemployment is among the lowest in the nation. So I am thinking it is Missouri, not Kansas, that has an economic failure somewhere.
A lot of the talk against Brownback is purely political.
If we're going to compare school districts, I already pointed out that Johnson County's school districts are not the ones feeling the pinch from Brownback's budget cuts. No one on this forum is going to debate you that Shawnee Mission and Blue Valley are top-notch. And no one will debate you that KCMO school district is a shambles.
Nor is this thread about figuring out which state is better, or which side of the metro is better. The whole point is that Kansas' near-future is in grave danger because of Brownback's tax and budget policies, and that KCMO is suffering a huge amount of collateral damage from it. If you can make a case that the state of Kansas, in general, is okie-dokie, be my guest. But you can't use evidence from Johnson County alone, because JoCo has been intentionally preserved by Topeka to remain the lone exception to that rule.
Show us you give a rip about what happens in Hays, or Wichita, or Hutchison, or Pittsburg. Especially in their public schools.
Until Kansas City Missouri's school district is accredited, I don't really think there is any competition with Johnson County, Kansas. Shawnee Mission and Blue Valley schools are still among the top in the nation. So I don't see why people from MISSOURI try to bash Kansas and talk about how Kansas schools are going to decline when Kansas City Missouri schools have been a colossal failure for years. I think they should worry about their own failed school district instead of badmouthing Kansas.
And as much talk as there is about Kansas being an "economic failure" - Missouri wasn't able to pay tax refunds last year on a timely basis. They had to wait until revenue came in to be able to give tax refunds. That sounds to me like they have a huge cash flow problem. Kansas was able to issue tax refunds. Kansas' roads are so much better than Missouri's. A far greater percentage of Missourians are on the public dole with food stamps, subsidized housing, etc. than Kansans. Kansas unemployment is among the lowest in the nation. So I am thinking it is Missouri, not Kansas, that has an economic failure somewhere.
A lot of the talk against Brownback is purely political.
I'm sorry your refund was late, but you have got to find something else to use. Your late income tax refund was more of a technicality of MO moving money around than it not being able to pay the refunds. It's not even remotely comparing to what is going on in Kansas and it's rather comical that that is all you can come up with.
And this is not about the KCMO School district vs JoCo school districts. The Northland portion of KCMO has top rated school districts as well and you know it. There are great districts across the MO side with a student population that not only dwarfs the KCMOSD, but is actually larger than what JoCo has in its three districts. Park Hill, Platte County, Liberty, North KC, Blue Springs, Lee's Summit, Raymore, Grain Valley, etc all compare to JoCo schools just fine. And Independence etc are better than people think.
And JoCo is feeling some of this. The state and county hand out millions to poach kcmo business yet the MO side still brings in MORE NEW jobs than the KS side to the metro and now the MO side is building more homes and that gap seems to be widening. Kansas has one county that has any sort of economic importance or future to the state and not only is that county is subsidized to the brim with tax dollars, the state depends on JoCo to help subsidize the rest of the state, it won't be able to carry the entire state much longer. Something has to give and JoCo is about all that Kansas has left that can give.
It's well known that Brownback has actually tasked people to go after KCMO companies with all the power and money they can possibly throw at them to help sustain JoCo's imaginary "economic growth engine" and continue to fool Kansas voters like yourself for a few more years.
And I have not even brought up that fact that every single office and retail development in this so called "affluent fast growing county" of Johnson County has to have 25-75% of their cost also paid for by tax payers. It's going to catch up to both Kansas and Johnson County and quickly.
I don't even care about the stupid refund; it's not like I desperately needed the money or anything. I just think it's interesting that Missouri is OBVIOUSLY in financial trouble, yet all people who are all into Kansas City Missouri can talk about is how bad Kansas is.
I get it. You are jealous that businesses have moved to Johnson County. If Kansas City, Missouri could compete, businesses would not move. Financial incentives are given everywhere ALL THE TIME. If businesses think that being in Johnson County is better for their bottom line, that's where they are going to go. I'm sorry KCMO can't compete. But it's not all financial. A lot of people would rather work in Johnson County than have to drive to congested downtown on one-way streets and pay to park. Plus there is less crime in Johnson County. So yeah, if I could work downtown or in Johnson County, I'd choose Johnson County.
A few years ago downtown KCMO was practically a ghost town and Johnson County provided a place for businesses to go. A few years ago, once it was dark there was NO ONE downtown. Yet now that KCMO has been revitalized somewhat, all the sudden we are supposed to bow down to KCMO? Nope.
And there are other reasons for businesses moving to Johnson County. I work in healthcare, and I know for a fact that many, many, many doctors moved their practices from KCMO to Johnson County because the malpractice insurance in Missouri is too expensive.
Another thing I noticed. I worked with a doctor who moved his practice from 66th and Troost to 119th and Nall when Menorah built their new hospital. It was interesting that he had two types of patients - his old patients from the 66th and Troost office, the majority of which were Medicaid patients, and his new patients, who were primarily wealthy Jewish patients who lived in the area near the new hospital and had private insurance. We all know that private insurance pays better than Medicaid. That wasn't his reason for moving; he moved because the hospital moved. But can you blame a doctor or hospital for wanting to be an area where there will be higher revenue? They are, after all, a business. Hospitals on the Missouri side have built satellite hospitals on the Kansas side. I don't blame them.
There are TONS of new hospitals, hospital expansions and medical buildings going up all over the MO side suburbs. Have you seen the two new hospitals in Lee's Summit, they are huge and always expanding. St Lukes east is getting massive and Lees Summit Hospital is still growing. Both are almost brand new. Truman East near Lees Summit has also gone through a major expansion. The new Centerpoint hospital in Independence is huge. There is a new large Children's Mercy near there as well. St Lukes Northland and Liberty hospitals have seen major recent expansions. All of these hospitals have new nearby medical buildings. The 470 corridor has specialty medical buildings all along it now. Not to mention huge expansions of existing closer in hospitals like the Plaza St Lukes, Children's Mercy Downtown, Truman and NKC Hospital.
Once again, you just love to compare all of Johnson County to some corner of KCMO's ghetto. Yet when you really compare the KS side (which is basically only JoCo) to the MO side, things are very different.
Last edited by kcmo; 01-07-2015 at 11:38 AM..
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