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Old 04-25-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: IN
22,271 posts, read 38,883,205 times
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^
I definitely agree with you.
Profligate water mining through big subsidies for growing corn is not sustainable in the High Plains, and never was sustainable. The motive for quick profits will always be a driver, though. The same was true for the ethanol craze as well as a lot of marginal land was taken out of CRP and put into production.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:04 PM
 
16 posts, read 29,239 times
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I harvested wheat all the way north into Canada for 5 years in the midwest. And besides who determines what is and isn't a midwestern crop, you two antagonistas? Isn't the Midwest also called the Breadbasket, and isn't bread made from wheat? Can I suggest you put down the keyboard and get out more hehe
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Western Nebraskansas
2,707 posts, read 5,669,041 times
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I'm an antagonist because I have the audacity to disagree with you?
Have you actually READ my posts??
I've lived (am living) on farms and ranches all over Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota and Kansas. How much more "out" do you need?

And if you were on a combine crew, I'm going to make a guess that you were primarily in the plains states; Texas right up through North Dakota/eastern MT. (Since of course that IS where most of the wheat in this country is grown)
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Land of chicken fry & fried okra
21 posts, read 64,799 times
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Post Term Midwest

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMeFred View Post
Because "MidWest" is a region of higher rainfall that doesn't require irrigation in order to farm.
The western half of Kansas would not be able to farm to the extent that they do without center pivot irrigation.
Eastern KS might indeed be similar to the midwest, much like eastern Nebraska and even the eastern Dakotas.

But these four states as a whole would be considered "Plains."
The western halves just are not similar to the rest of the MidWest.
The term "midwest" is more of a historical term.
As of late it is used towards culture in general such as southern culture or western. It has nothing to do with farming or irrigation.

Here you go if you want some light reading. This is from the link below.

Midwestern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Midwestern United States (in the U.S. generally referred to as the Midwest) is one of the four geographic regions within the United States of America used by the United States Census Bureau in its reporting.
The region consists of twelve states in the north-central United States: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Ohio and Wisconsin.[1] A 2006 Census Bureau estimate put the population at 66,217,736. Both the geographic center of the contiguous U.S. and the population center of the U.S. are in the Midwest. The United States Census Bureau divides this region into the East North Central States (essentially the Great Lakes States) and the West North Central States.
Chicago is the largest city in the region, followed by Detroit and Indianapolis. The Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI MSA is the largest metropolitan statistical area, followed by the Detroit-Warren-Livonia, MI MSA, and the Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI MSA.[2] Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan is the oldest city in the region, having been founded by French missionaries and explorers in 1668.
The term Midwest has been in common use for over 100 years. A variant term, "Middle West", has been in use since the 19th century and remains relatively common.[3] Another term sometimes applied to the same general region is "the heartland".[4] Other designations for the region have fallen into disuse, such as the "Northwest" or "Old Northwest" (from "Northwest Territory") and "Mid-America". Since the book Middletown appeared in 1929, sociologists have often used Midwestern cities (and the Midwest generally) as "typical" of the entire nation.[5] The region has a higher employment-to-population ratio (the percentage of employed people at least 16 years old) than the Northeast, the West, the South, or the Sun Belt states.[6]


Definition
Traditional definitions of the Midwest include the Northwest Ordinance "Old Northwest" states and many states that were part of the Louisiana Purchase. The states of the Old Northwest are also known as "Great Lakes states". Many of the Louisiana Purchase states are also known as "Great Plains states".
The North Central Region is defined by the U.S. Census Bureau as these 12 states:Physical geography
While these states are for the most part relatively flat, consisting either of plains or of rolling and small hills, there is a measure of geographical variation. In particular, the eastern Midwest near the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains; the Great Lakes Basin; the Ozark Mountains of southern Missouri; the rugged topography of Southern Indiana; and the Driftless Area of southwest Wisconsin, southeast Minnesota, and northeast Iowa exhibit a high degree of topographical variety. Prairies cover most of the states west of the Mississippi River with the exception of taiga-clad northern Minnesota. Illinois lies within an area called the "prairie peninsula", an eastward extension of prairies that borders deciduous forests to the north, east, and south. Rainfall decreases from east to west, resulting in different types of prairies, with the tallgrass prairie in the wetter eastern region, mixed-grass prairie in the central Great Plains, and shortgrass prairie towards the rain shadow of the Rockies. Today, these three prairie types largely correspond to the corn/soybean area, the wheat belt, and the western rangelands, respectively. Although hardwood forests in the northern Midwest were clear-cut in the late 1800s, they were replaced by new growth. Ohio and Michigan's forests are still growing. The majority of the Midwest can now be categorized as urbanized areas or pastoral agricultural areas.

History of the term Midwest
As this region lies mostly in the eastern half of the United States, the term "Midwest" can be misleading if one does not understand American history.
The term West was applied to the region in the early years of the country. In 1789, the Northwest Ordinance was enacted, creating the Northwest Territory, which was bounded by the Great Lakes and the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers. Because the Northwest Territory lay between the East Coast and the then-far-West, the states carved out of it were called the "Northwest". In the early 19th century, anything west of the Mississippi River was considered the West, and the Midwest was the region east of the Mississippi and west of the Appalachians. In time, some users began to include Minnesota, Iowa and Missouri in the Midwest. With the settlement of the western prairie, the new term Great Plains States was used for the row of states from North Dakota to Kansas. Later, these states also came to be considered Midwest by some.
The states of the "old Northwest" are now called the "East North Central States" by the United States Census Bureau and the "Great Lakes" region by some of its inhabitants, whereas the states just west of the Mississippi and the Great Plains states are called the "West North Central States" by the Census Bureau. Today people as far west as eastern Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana, and southward into Oklahoma sometimes identify themselves with the term Midwest.[10] Some parts of the Midwest are still referred to as "Northwest" for historical reasons – for example, Minnesota-based Northwest Airlines and Northwestern University in Illinois – so the Northwest region of the country is called the "Pacific Northwest" to make a clear distinction

Culture
Religiously, like most of the United States, the Midwest is mostly Christian.
Roman Catholicism is the largest religious denomination in the Midwest, varying between 19 and 29% of the state populations.[citation needed] Southern Baptists compose 15.42% of Missouri's population [11] and a small percentage in other Midwestern states. Lutherans are prevalent in the Upper Midwest, especially in Minnesota.
Judaism and Islam are each practiced by 1% or less of the population, with higher concentrations in major urban areas, such as Chicago, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Detroit, and Cleveland.[citation needed] Those with no religious affiliation make up 13–16% of the Midwest's population.[citation needed] Around 50% of the people in the Midwest regularly attend church.[12]
The rural heritage of the land in the Midwest remains widely held, even if industrialization and suburbanization have overtaken the states in the original Northwest Territory.
Because of 20th century African American migration from the South, a large African-American urban population lives in most of the region's major cities, although the concentration is not generally as large as that of the Southern United States. The combination of industry and cultures, jazz, blues, and rock and roll led to an outpouring of musical creativity in the 20th century, including new music genres such as the Motown Sound and techno from Detroit and house music from Chicago. Additionally, the electrified Chicago blues sound exemplifies the genre, as popularized by record labels Chess and Alligator and portrayed in such films as The Blues Brothers, Godfathers and Sons and Adventures in Babysitting. Rock and roll music was first identified as a new genre by a Cleveland radio disc jockey, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is located in Cleveland.


Cultural overlap with neighboring regions
Differences in the definition of the Midwest mainly split between the Heartland and the Great Plains on one side, and the Great Lakes and the Rust Belt on the other. While some point to the small towns and agricultural communities in Kansas, Iowa, the Dakotas, and Nebraska of the Great Plains as representative of traditional Midwestern lifestyles and values, others assert that the declining Rust Belt cities of the Great Lakes – with their histories of 19th- and early-20th-century immigration, manufacturing base, and strong Catholic influence – are more representative of the Midwestern experience.
Certain areas of the traditionally defined Midwest are often cited as not being representative of the region, while other areas traditionally outside of the Midwest are often claimed to be part of the Midwest. These claims often embody historical, cultural, economic or demographic arguments for inclusion or exclusion. Perceptions of the proper classification of the Midwest also vary within the region, and tend toward exclusion rather than inclusion.
Two other regions, Appalachia and the Ozark Mountains, overlap geographically with the Midwest – Appalachia in Southern Ohio and the Ozarks in Southern Missouri. The Ohio River has long been the boundary between North and South and between the Midwest and the Upper South. All of the lower Midwestern states, including Missouri, have a major Southern component, but only Missouri was a slave state before the Civil War.
Western Pennsylvania, which contains the cities of Erie and Pittsburgh and the Western New York city of Buffalo, New York, shares history with the Midwest but overlaps with Appalachia and the Northeast as well.[13]
Although Kentucky is considered Midwestern by some,[14], it is categorized as Southern by the Census Bureau. It can be argued that due to German populations in the Northern Kentucky area and parts of Louisville that the state has midwestern influence in those areas, however this is generally not the case for the remainder of the state. When gauging the states culture as a whole based upon dialect, cuisine, ancestry, religion and other cultural factors, Kentucky has more in common with the south, specifically the upper south
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Land of chicken fry & fried okra
21 posts, read 64,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Interesting perspective.

I do not think that Kansas shares enough cultural commonality with OK/TX to be grouped in with them. Another thing to recognize is that Kansas is above the Mason-Dixon, which is technically the cutoff. While there may be some Southern traits resident on Kansas' southern border, based on my experience (around 6-7 trips) in Kansas, I think KS has much more cultural affinity to Nebraska, Missouri, and Iowa. Also, I have heard Mid-South to describe Tennessee (and to a lesser extent Kentucky and Arkansas) so that regional moniker has already been utilized for other states somewhat.

Oklahoma and Texas obviously share the most commonality with each other, with a good portion of Arkansas exhibiting cultural/regional affinity, and to a lesser extent Louisiana. It is for this reason, in my opinion, that the Census groups TX/AR/LA/OK together in a subregion of the South called the West South Central.

Many of us Okies/Texans prefer South-Central (or Western-South as my good friend, TexReb likes to employ) as a regional designation as it highlights the obvious Southern culture resident in Oklahoma/Texas while clearly demonstrating a distinction with Deep South states such as Bammer, Mississippi, South Carolina, Georgia, etc.

With that said, I will say that Kansans are some of the nicest/laid back folk (which IS very similar to OK/TX) I've come into contact with around our great country. We just "tawk" a little different down here in these parts.

Anyhow, thanks for your insights and good dialogue.
I can relate to alot of what I read here. First I'm a proud Oklahoman. Second, American by birth, Southerner by the grace of god and if anyone says other wise they can kiss my grits
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Western Nebraskansas
2,707 posts, read 5,669,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Lee View Post
The term "midwest" is more of a historical term.
You're preaching to the choir.

From my first post in this thread, several pages back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsMeFred
I agree.
I also agree with those who've pointed out that the modern "MidWest" is generally an expansion beyond what historically was known as the "MidWest"
(But of course most Americans don't have a clue about their own history anyway, so let's not confuse the masses. )
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:28 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
9,176 posts, read 13,557,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Kansas is mostly a plains state overall. It is far too arid to be considered Midwest in large sections of the state.
I tend to consider the "Midwest" everything from Ohio westward through Kansas, with the West beginning in Colorado, and the "heartland" to be between the Mississippi River and the Rocky Mountains, and "Middle America" to be everything between the Appalachians and the Sierra Nevada. But its interesting to see all these different definitions.

Here in Maryland, everyone would consider Kansas to be in the Midwest which includes the Plains states as well as the Great Lakes region excluidng New York and Pennsylvania.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Newark, California
2,250 posts, read 1,274,555 times
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I consider these states to make up the Midwest: The Dakotas, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska. Kansas and Kentucky could be up for debate, but I think some parts of Kansas are too far west or south to be considered the 'Midwest'.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Location: IN
22,271 posts, read 38,883,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I tend to consider the "Midwest" everything from Ohio westward through Kansas, with the West beginning in Colorado, and the "heartland" to be between the Mississippi River and the Rocky Mountains, and "Middle America" to be everything between the Appalachians and the Sierra Nevada. But its interesting to see all these different definitions.

Here in Maryland, everyone would consider Kansas to be in the Midwest which includes the Plains states as well as the Great Lakes region excluidng New York and Pennsylvania.
Kansas is Western because irrigation is needed to grow corn in many parts of the state. In the Midwest this is hardly ever the case. In terms of vegetation differences, areas east of the Mississippi River (if not farmed) revert back into tallgrass prairies and woods. The Great Plains and Great Lakes have increasingly little in common economically with one another. The Great Plains has seen growth (mainly through commodities like oil, gas coal, higher crop prices, etc) while the Great Lakes have seen mostly economic stagnation and statism. The outlook of the populace tends to be different as well in my opinion.
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Garden City, KS
110 posts, read 243,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Dude View Post
I consider these states to make up the Midwest: The Dakotas, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska. Kansas and Kentucky could be up for debate, but I think some parts of Kansas are too far west or south to be considered the 'Midwest'.
I could not agree with you more.

Most parts of Kansas have pretty much all the stereotypes of the Midwest. But from roughly a Goodland-to-Dogde City line, everything southwest of that is Western-Southwestern.

The Southern influence area is interesting to debate. I believe it is generally the area south and east of Wichita. It's a small influence area, and that's why Kansas is almost always never included in the South, IMO.

Nice post by the way
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