Ar - Kansas or Arkansas River??? (Wichita: home, school, places)

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by Ellie C.

...It has nothing to do with how you pronounce the name of a river, which is just a colloquialism...

Thanks....I was trying to think of that word. In this case it seems to fit well.

[athfo]

Originally Posted by quesera

That's simply not true. I think it's wrong for you to lump everyone in a category based on one person's opinion.

Couldn't agree more

[rcf]

I'll just throw into the mix that natives of the state of Arkansas refer to themselves as Ar-Kan-Sans, not Ar-Kan-Sawns or Arkansonians.

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by rcf

I'll just throw into the mix that natives of the state of Arkansas refer to themselves as Ar-Kan-Sans, not Ar-Kan-Sawns or Arkansonians.

OK that's a little different though. You're referring to the name of residents of a geographical region.

I was in Memphis once watching the local news and I just about cracked up when I heard the guy say the word "Memphians".

[Ellie C.]

Originally Posted by quesera

That's simply not true. I think it's wrong for you to lump everyone in a category based on one person's opinion.

Not everyone. I have friends who still live there who do not think that way.

However, those people are very much in the minority. Most of the people I encountered had no tolerance for diversity of any kind. I think if you take an honest look at the general population, you cannot deny this.

[janelle144]

Originally Posted by drjones96

I'm an outsider who grew up in Missouri. So forgive me if I may come off as being offensive to the locals. But do you realize how dumb those folks would sound to outsiders if they pronounced Arkansas like that? All over the nation people pronounce it correctly. From California to New York....Florida to Washington....but a neighboring state that happens to share the second two sylables of the spelling....out of silly pride...decides to change the way it is pronounced????

What pride---it's just the way we always heard it pronounced. Then I hear some who live in Missouri say misery to pronounce the name of their state. I find that amusing. We aways know when a new person is starting to work in TV here. They don't pronounce our cities like we do. El Doh Rod DO instead of El Dor Ray Doh. Sa Lean A instead of Sa line A. Then we have Greenwich street. I say Green Wich and my hubby corrects me---it's Gren Ich. Oh shut up---when in Rome. LOL He has traveled outside of the country and has become such a snob. LOL So what if we say Ar Kansas? Our state is pronounced Kan sas not Kan saw. I don't hear anyone say Kan saw. By the way after a new person on TV is here for awhile they pronounced things the way we do as well. As I say---when in Rome.

[aspera]

When in Roma...do as the Vandals did. Plunder.

I travel to Arkansas City, Kansas every few days. A while back I did some research on the web about how to pronounce 'Arkansas' while in Kansas. It really gets down to what the root words mean, what they meant during usage, how they were pronounced, who pronounced them, how they were heard then used by French explorers, and how they were anglicizied. The names were for groups of people, then rivers, then states.

The names come from two distinct roots. Kansas comes from the SIOUX Ka N ze, meaning "south wind". Arkansas shares roots, but was pronounced Ar Ka N Zah, from French corruption of the Algonkian. Both mean "south wind".

If anything, Kansas should be pronounced as the French who named the Kansas River did, with a silent 's'. The 's' was used to make the word Kansa plural.

Kaw, Kaza, Kosa, Kasa, Kanze, Konza, Kanza, Kamsa, Cansa, Qansa, etc spoke Kansa (Souian language). Prior to 1750, the Kaw people lived in the lower Ohio Valley but migrated to northeastern Kansas.
Legend says that 5 tribes [Kansa, Osage, Omaha, Ponka (Ponca), and Kwapa (Quapaw)] were once one people (the Dhegiha Souix). They split at the mouth of the Ohio River. Those going down the Mississippi River became the downstream people, or 'Kwapa'. Those going upstream became the upstream people, or 'Omaha'. The upstream people settled in different areas and split from each other. The Kansa went upstream, found the Missouri River, and kept going upstream until the settled in the area named after them (Kansas City, and west towards Topeka?). They were upstream people.
The Kwapa (Quapaw/Ugaxpa/Ugakhpa/"the downstream people") also known as Arkansa, went downstream. They settled at the mouth of the Arkansas River on the Mississippi River.

The French explorers' Illini Indian guides called the Quapaw (Oo-gaq-pa) "Akansea" (Oo-ka-na-sa) in their Algonkian language, or "people of the south wind". This was written down as 'Arkansoa', 'Arkensa', 'Arkancas', and 'Arkansas' by a series of French explorers. The French seemed to use the plural when they referred to the river where the tribe lived, so the River was named Arkansas. The state was named after the river. The English speaking people of Arkansas kept the French pronunciation.

The English speaking people of Kansas did not. In fact, they decided to pronounce Arkansas as Ar-kansas. That's just plain wrong. Upstream people and downstream people are not the same. Sure, the root word for both seems to basically mean "people from the south" but that's like saying Oklahomans are the same Texans, Mexicans, Chileans, and Brazilians because they're all south of Kansas.

I say "Arkansaw City" as much as I can when I'm down there. They correct me, and then I REALLY correct them.

[quesera]

Nice history lesson there, aspera, but is it necessary to go to the town and belittle the residents for pronouncing the name of their town the way they do, "as much as I can when I'm down there"?

[pioneer88]

regardless it's still in Kansas. And people can call it whatever they want. When it's a town in arkansas, pronounce it that way. Does it really matter?

[Ellie C.]

Originally Posted by aspera

When in Roma...do as the Vandals did. Plunder.

I travel to Arkansas City, Kansas every few days. A while back I did some research on the web about how to pronounce 'Arkansas' while in Kansas. It really gets down to what the root words mean, what they meant during usage, how they were pronounced, who pronounced them, how they were heard then used by French explorers, and how they were anglicizied. The names were for groups of people, then rivers, then states.

The names come from two distinct roots. Kansas comes from the SIOUX Ka N ze, meaning "south wind". Arkansas shares roots, but was pronounced Ar Ka N Zah, from French corruption of the Algonkian. Both mean "south wind".

If anything, Kansas should be pronounced as the French who named the Kansas River did, with a silent 's'. The 's' was used to make the word Kansa plural.

Kaw, Kaza, Kosa, Kasa, Kanze, Konza, Kanza, Kamsa, Cansa, Qansa, etc spoke Kansa (Souian language). Prior to 1750, the Kaw people lived in the lower Ohio Valley but migrated to northeastern Kansas.
Legend says that 5 tribes [Kansa, Osage, Omaha, Ponka (Ponca), and Kwapa (Quapaw)] were once one people (the Dhegiha Souix). They split at the mouth of the Ohio River. Those going down the Mississippi River became the downstream people, or 'Kwapa'. Those going upstream became the upstream people, or 'Omaha'. The upstream people settled in different areas and split from each other. The Kansa went upstream, found the Missouri River, and kept going upstream until the settled in the area named after them (Kansas City, and west towards Topeka?). They were upstream people.
The Kwapa (Quapaw/Ugaxpa/Ugakhpa/"the downstream people") also known as Arkansa, went downstream. They settled at the mouth of the Arkansas River on the Mississippi River.

The French explorers' Illini Indian guides called the Quapaw (Oo-gaq-pa) "Akansea" (Oo-ka-na-sa) in their Algonkian language, or "people of the south wind". This was written down as 'Arkansoa', 'Arkensa', 'Arkancas', and 'Arkansas' by a series of French explorers. The French seemed to use the plural when they referred to the river where the tribe lived, so the River was named Arkansas. The state was named after the river. The English speaking people of Arkansas kept the French pronunciation.

The English speaking people of Kansas did not. In fact, they decided to pronounce Arkansas as Ar-kansas. That's just plain wrong. Upstream people and downstream people are not the same. Sure, the root word for both seems to basically mean "people from the south" but that's like saying Oklahomans are the same Texans, Mexicans, Chileans, and Brazilians because they're all south of Kansas.

I say "Arkansaw City" as much as I can when I'm down there. They correct me, and then I REALLY correct them.

Cool post. Very informative.

Everyone I knew always called it "Ark City" when I lived in KS...