Kansas: My impressions (Overland Park, Kansas City, Shawnee: unemployment rate, movies, public schools)

[WX_Watcher]

Originally Posted by denverian

That's funny. I went to SM West and I remember that the SM school district (and JOCO) had a reputation throughout the state for being rich snobs, and no one else liked our district.

But we kids from SM North always thought we were the poor kids, referring to ourselves as living on the "wrong side of the railroad tracks". We thought the rich snobs were all over at SM East.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by WX_Watcher

But we kids from SM North always thought we were the poor kids, referring to ourselves as living on the "wrong side of the railroad tracks". We thought the rich snobs were all over at SM East.

Outside the district, every school was perceived as rich. Within the district, North was poor, South and East were rich, Northwest and West were middle of the road. All silly, if you ask me. I had a couple friends at North who came from fairly well-off families.

[WX_Watcher]

Originally Posted by denverian

Outside the district, every school was perceived as rich. Within the district, North was poor, South and East were rich, Northwest and West were middle of the road. All silly, if you ask me. I had a couple friends at North who came from fairly well-off families.

Shawnee Mission East opened up when I was in 8th or 9th grade. SM West opened a couple years later. So, the other SM schools came along after my time. My joke about the "wrong side of the tracks" at SM North is a bit tongue in cheek as back then the kids from Fairway, Westwood, and Mission Hills were in our SM North school boundary also. I understand they have since then redistricted to send those kids to SM East.
After living in many cities around the country, I feel fortunate to have gone through my growing up/ school years in such a good environment.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by Repubocrat

What I was trying to say is that I saw a lot of parts of KCMO that are obviously lacking in infra structure, terrible roads and lots of urban decay. As soon as I crossed over to KS, everything looked cleaner, newer and more convenient.

I would LOVE to see some actual proof of this. Till then, I call BS.

Where in MO is this area you speak of where you cross from KS to MO and the infrastructure is lacking, terrible roads and urban decay? I'll tell you it's not near state line.

Most areas along state line are pretty comparable on both sides of the line, sometimes the MO side is better. Sometimes the KS side is better. Most of the time, the MO side is much better or at leas comparable.

Let's start with KCI and work south.

Platte County vs Wyandotte County. Fast growing, upscale suburban area with good schools, shopping etc and then you take 69 or 635 into the Kansas side and it's pretty much ghetto.

Let's go South a bit more. Briarcliff on the MO side, Fairfax on the KS side. Hmm.

Then we go downtown. KCMO or KCK. Let's see, is there even a reason to compare the two? KCMO has tens of thousands of jobs, nearly 20,000 residents, attractions etc. KCK has?

OK, we are still moving south. just south of Downtown you have the Hispanic Westside of KCMO. Not a bad area, it's urban and gritty and a very minority area, but has tons of restaurants. It's also next to the popular crossroads area. Go west past Kemper into KS and what do you have? Nothing really. pretty ghetto actually, a few warehouses and run down shacks.

Now, as we continue south into midtown and Westport. Coleman Highlands, Valentine, Old Hyde Park, Westport on the MO side with many very nice, livable urban neighborhoods and districts. Cross into KS and it quickly turns to section 8 housing. Even the popular 39th area near KU Med is all about the MO side. The only thing on the KS side is the hospital itself and a handful of fast food places.

Keep going south toward the Plaza and the KS side does get nicer with Westwood and Fairway, but those areas don’t hold a candle to Plaza district and areas like South Plaza, West Plaza and Loose Park.

Keep going south and it evens out pretty good. The areas along Ward Parkway, Oak, Wornall etc on the MO side easily compare to Mission Hills on the KS side.

Go further south into Brookside and again, Prairie village and northern Leawood are nice, but they don’t quite have the charm and architecture the areas right across state line in MO do. They do have better public schools, but this area is already “suburban” where the MO side still has more of an “urban” charm to it.

Let’s keep going south into Waldo and Watt’s Mill. This area is not quite as nice as Leawood is on the KS side. Actually, there is no comparison. That doesn’t mean Waldo and Watts Mill are bad areas, just older and more modest and gritty than Leawood is in that area. Fine people live in Waldo. It’s a great starter home area for young people without kids etc. Everybody can’t live in 500k homes in Leawood you know.

When you cross from MO to KS on busy 435, I don’t notice a big difference. Both sides have office parks, hotels, apartment complexes and hospitals. The highway is not in worse shape on one side or the other.

Going south of 435 into Red Bridge the housing is pretty nice and much of it is upscale, but this is where Leawood really starts to enter the McMansion era of suburban living. For the most part, the KS side has much bigger homes, but the MO side is no slacker in this area. It’s also a nice area. Every home is not over 400k, but it’s a nice area which many home that approach that value.

Now we continue into Martin City. A suburban area that is also relatively modest compared to the southern reaches of Leawood, but still a nice area. But it’s also where a ton of new retail is, most of which is not good enough to be on the KS side, but good enough to have half the parking full of KS cars.

Keep going south and you have Lock Loid on the MO side, probably the most upscale subdivision in all of metro KC. There is more upscale stuff on the KS side as well.

Keep going south and you have Belton and Raymore while the KS side is pretty rural in this area.

So, there you have it.

Please tell me this area of KC where you drive from KS to MO and it turns to crap. I want to know where this area is.

As far as Shawnee, Lenexa, Olathe etc? Go east and north. Lee's Summit, Blue Springs, Liberty, KCNorth, Parkville etc offer a similar suburban quality of life.

I’ll say it again.

If JoCo people were not so arrogant and snotty toward the MO side, there wouldn’t be any of the resentment toward them from Missourians. Missourians know they live in nice areas (urban or suburban) they know they have good schools (public suburban and private urban), they don’t have to say they are better than those KS schools, they simply know they have good schools. Shopping, dining, movies and 1000 times more entertainment options can be found on the MO side and they know it. They are not “jealous” of the KS side. They simply resent the fact that so many on the KS side think they are better than those on the MO side. Ask people that live on the MO side. Most of them will tell this to you.

[rosecitywanderer]

I just arrived in Overland Park last night around 9 PM (drove in) and I must admit, I'm very impressed. It's clean, people are nice, the road system is good and the traffic lights are actually timed decently well. That last bit is a great relief as suburban Portland's traffic light system SUCKS (putting it mildly).

I'm just driving my car with Oregon plates and I feel really out of place.

[smellykat]

Originally Posted by rosecitywanderer

I just arrived in Overland Park last night around 9 PM (drove in) and I must admit, I'm very impressed. It's clean, people are nice, the road system is good and the traffic lights are actually timed decently well. That last bit is a great relief as suburban Portland's traffic light system SUCKS (putting it mildly).

I'm just driving my car with Oregon plates and I feel really out of place.

Overland Park does make a good impression with its manicured greenspace, beautiful well maintained subdivisions with great zoning, and good roads. It is a perennial favorite on the "best places to live" lists, and our library system is one of the most highly rated for its population served in the country. Welcome to Overland Park, Rose City! Take time to chat with the locals. Most of us are pretty friendly.

[KansastoSouthphilly]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I would LOVE to see some actual proof of this. Till then, I call BS.

Where in MO is this area you speak of where you cross from KS to MO and the infrastructure is lacking, terrible roads and urban decay? I'll tell you it's not near state line.

...
I’ll say it again.

If JoCo people were not so arrogant and snotty toward the MO side, there wouldn’t be any of the resentment toward them from Missourians. Missourians know they live in nice areas (urban or suburban) they know they have good schools (public suburban and private urban), they don’t have to say they are better than those KS schools, they simply know they have good schools. Shopping, dining, movies and 1000 times more entertainment options can be found on the MO side and they know it. They are not “jealous” of the KS side. They simply resent the fact that so many on the KS side think they are better than those on the MO side. Ask people that live on the MO side. Most of them will tell this to you.

Why are you talking about Kansans being snotty while jumping down the throat of a Minnesota resident? This person was just stating his/her observations. You state that MO residents don't feel the need to state they are better but you felt compelled to come to the KS forum to badmouth an outside residents observations? I grew up in Olathe and I never noticed an anti-KC sentiment that goes beyond an anti-city sentiment that you will find in any suburban area.

You comparison of the areas is highly suspect. Why do you concentrate on KCK so much? The discussion is about Johnson County. You talk about "ghetto" KCK but don't talk about the crappy Missouri 'burbs (Independence/Raytown etc). Why do you characterize KCK as ghetto but completely neglect the very violent and decaying areas of KCMO? Is this just part of the "'urban' charm" as you put it? Not to mention if "urban charm" is what you seek then you probably shouldn't be living in the KC metro at all. I have been to almost every major city in the US and KC is probably the most suburban "city" I have ever seen (except for Oklahoma-City).

I've seen you go on your anti-KS rants before and I'm not sure why the people who live in JOCO should care that there are technically more entertainment/dining options on the MO side. JOCO is a suburban community, and it is designed to allow easy access to those ammenities while proving an escape as well.

[kcmo]

^ I joined in because MO was brought into the discussion. I don't see the need to rip on the MO side to prop up the Kansas side. It's been going on for decades and it's simply unfair and wrong.

Of course the MO side has ghetto. So does the Kansas side. My point was that when you cross from KS to MO the world doesn't turn to a 3rd world country. Not in the least. Most of the time the MO side is BETTER and other times it's about the same. KCMO's eastside is ghetto, but the urban core all the way from the river to Martin City is not.

But the second people start ripping on the MO side, telling people that the MO schools suck, the MO side it a crime infested armpit, I'm going to jump in and I'm going to tell people that the MO side offers not only comparable suburban areas and schools, but very nice urban areas (something that does not exist in KS). Then I will remind people that the KS side is not just Johnson County. If people want to compare JoCO to the MO side in a way that that makes the entire MO side look like east KCMO and the KCMO school district, then I will do the same and compare the vibrant parts of KCMO and the nice suburbs of the Northland and Eastern Jackson County to Wyandotte County. It would be like me saying that KS schools suck, move to Lee's Summit or the Northland, becasue the KCK school district is not a very good district, totally ignoring the fact that the KS side does have great school districts.

Talk about all the nice new perfect suburbs of JoCo all day long. I don't care.

I live on the border of Blue Springs and Lee's Summit and I live in a area that is just as nice as most areas of JoCo. My kids go to top notch schools etc. I also grew up and lived in urban KCMO for nearly 3 decades and can attest to all the good things about it. I too have traveled the world and metro KC is very suburban, but urban KCMO from the river to Brookside is very urban and competes well with other midsized urban cities.

Again, people can post on these forums all day long about how great the Johnson County suburbs and I will not even blink. I agree they are fine suburbs.

Leave KCMO and the rest of the MO side out of it.

[KansastoSouthphilly]

You really think the poster from MN/OR has an agenda in "tearing down" Missouri in order to "prop up" Kansas? The OPs observation are very understandable if you are going from inside of KC to Johnson County. I don't think you have to read it as a 1st world/3rd world divide as you are prone to do. Of course you are right Lees summit and the other suburban areas are very nice and I could see pointing this out. However, "calling BS" and your hostile tone towards somewhat who just wanted to complement an area seems unnecessary.

I have a problem with your comparisons because your discussion of the KS/MO divide demands the most literal interpretation of the OPs words and you are quick to ignore the problems on the MO side of the divide. As far as KS people lumping all of MO in w/East kcmo I think you have just set up a straw man. I have never heard someone talk about how much better the schools in Overland Park than the schools in Lees Summit. In my experience MO is often synonomous w/the City. Again it is more of an anti-city rhetoric than an anti-MO rhetoric. This is, of course, excludes the college sports based rivalry between the two.

Again i'm not sure why you resort to the tired "there are more urban AND suburban" options on the MO side" arguments. I have seen you make these arguments many times on these forums. The reality is that KS residents are not banished from crossing the state line and it in no way effects their quality of life which side of the state line those "urban" ammenities are located.

I guess we have to agree to disagree about the "urban" character of KC. I dont want to spend alot of time on this because I really like KC and miss many aspects of living there (especially the food!). Maybe tell me an area to look up on google streetview? I looked up the brookside area and it seemed pretty suburban (for a "city") to me.

[thriftylefty]

Thought I would chime in about the Ghetto's in KCK and KCMO, I grew up in what is refered to the ghetto's in both cities, and still have many, many relatives, in those ghetto's, Something an outsider wouldn't believe is the number of people who live in those shacks have Hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank, yes, hundreds of thousand Thanks to GM, Ford, BNSF. Many of those people earn enough in a year to buy a half a dozen of those houses every year. why ? I really don't know, but they don't think the suburbs offer them anything more but less money in the bank, After all they grew up with the criminals, the homeless, good and bad guys. Once case in particular was man who moved from the KCMO ghetto and bought a house in Stanley Kansas, it wasn't long after that he moved right back , he said it was pretty lonely out there. go figure?