Need Clutter Murder Info (Holcomb, Washington: live, law, legal)

[Mrs. Quagmire]

I've been doing a lot of reading and film watching regarding the Clutter family murders that happened in 1959. Much of the information I've absorbed from various sources is conflicting and contradicting.

I'm wondering about good, reliable sources for what really happened. I'm especially wondering about what happened at their executions. Did one or both of the killers beg for their lives? Did Perry Smith struggle and try to resist being taken up the stairs as one source said? Is there any information on the three sons of Dick Hickock? Was there dissention among the KBI agents?

If anyone can provide links to a good info source, it would be greatly appreciated. Sources within Kansas would especially be gladly received.

Thank you in advance.

[j_k_k]

I can only give you one bit of information which you may already know: the Kansas hangings that year were the last legal hangings in the US until Washington started hanging people again in the 1990s. Now Washington is the only remaining state that still has hanging on the books, though we don't use it very often.

Ancillary info that might interest you about legal hangings, since you were asking about the killers' behavior on the way to the Kansas gallows:

It was a bit comical when we started up again (in WA): we had trouble finding anyone skilled and experienced in the fine art of stringing people up, which turns out to be a pretty exact science because you have to calculate the drop carefully based on weight so as to break the neck cleanly, and avoid either slow strangulation and a lot of kicking and flopping, or having the head detached, which gets you bad press. I think we finally had to get someone from the Army with a field manual; not sure. It used to be the default method here; the law said that you could choose between the noose or the needle, but if you refused to choose, you must hang. Then those mental defectives in the pokey at Wally let a sicko named Mitchell Rupe eat his way up to something like 400#. When it came time for him to choose, he piously said: 'Well, I'm morally opposed to capital punishment [though he inflicted it on two bank tellers without a qualm, which is what got him sentenced to die], so I can't choose a method; it would be against my cherished beliefs to endorse this form of penalty. So you have to hang me. But you can't, because there's no way to do it without ripping my head off. Therefore, it would be cruel and unusual, and you can't hang me, thus you cannot execute me at all.' Thus, they changed the law, and now if you refuse to choose, it's the gurney. Meanwhile, Rupe died in the slammer of liver disease anyway. Hopefully it was as slow and miserable as possible. I think we've only strung up one other subhuman, a kiddie-killer named Dodd. Might have been a third. It's pretty hard to get executed in WA; you have to work at it.

[Mrs. Quagmire]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

I can only give you one bit of information which you may already know: the Kansas hangings that year were the last legal hangings in the US until Washington started hanging people again in the 1990s. Now Washington is the only remaining state that still has hanging on the books, though we don't use it very often.

Ancillary info that might interest you about legal hangings, since you were asking about the killers' behavior on the way to the Kansas gallows:

It was a bit comical when we started up again (in WA): we had trouble finding anyone skilled and experienced in the fine art of stringing people up, which turns out to be a pretty exact science because you have to calculate the drop carefully based on weight so as to break the neck cleanly, and avoid either slow strangulation and a lot of kicking and flopping, or having the head detached, which gets you bad press. I think we finally had to get someone from the Army with a field manual; not sure. It used to be the default method here; the law said that you could choose between the noose or the needle, but if you refused to choose, you must hang. Then those mental defectives in the pokey at Wally let a sicko named Mitchell Rupe eat his way up to something like 400#. When it came time for him to choose, he piously said: 'Well, I'm morally opposed to capital punishment [though he inflicted it on two bank tellers without a qualm, which is what got him sentenced to die], so I can't choose a method; it would be against my cherished beliefs to endorse this form of penalty. So you have to hang me. But you can't, because there's no way to do it without ripping my head off. Therefore, it would be cruel and unusual, and you can't hang me, thus you cannot execute me at all.' Thus, they changed the law, and now if you refuse to choose, it's the gurney. Meanwhile, Rupe died in the slammer of liver disease anyway. Hopefully it was as slow and miserable as possible. I think we've only strung up one other subhuman, a kiddie-killer named Dodd. Might have been a third. It's pretty hard to get executed in WA; you have to work at it.

How did those administrative stupes at Wally World let that manipulative weasel eat his way to avoid the noose? Didn't they notice what the hell he was doing? It's a PRISON! The PRISON is supposed to be in charge of the PRISONER! Not the OTHER WAY AROUND!

It's reminiscent of Herman Goering avoiding the noose at Nuremberg with two hours to spare. He had vowed from the time that he was arrested that he'd never be hung. He played his Allied captors like fools.

[WildcatNmyheart]

I actually work with someone who is very closely related to one of the murderers. It is sort of a sore subject for her but I will let her know about your post and if she decides she wants to talk about it she can PM you.

[Mrs. Quagmire]

Thank you, Wildcat, that's good of you. If it's too sore of a subject for her, I completely understand.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Quagmire

How did those administrative stupes at Wally World let that manipulative weasel eat his way to avoid the noose? Didn't they notice what the hell he was doing? It's a PRISON! The PRISON is supposed to be in charge of the PRISONER! Not the OTHER WAY AROUND!

I hear you. Unfortunately, they really screwed that one up. While I'm generally opposed to capital punishment (on the grounds that I don't trust our system to adequately assess guilt or innocence), there's no doubt that Mitchell Rupe should have been put on a diet of celery and vitamins until he was hangable.

I am not sure how Holcomb takes the event these days. It's rough on a small town when it's only claim to fame is a horror.