Local vs Federal. A political question. (Liberal, Washington: home, neighborhoods, school)

[Leu]

First thing I noticed showing up at these boards today was the apparent fissure between lefties and righties. Unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of this country wants to just 'pick a side' and call it done. That is something that I completely disagree with on the very principle that it is based on.

There are no sides in these things. There IS however, right, and there is also wrong. But that doesn't mean that each individual 'side' is right or wrong on any individual issue.

I'll take the biggest hotbed issue right off the top of the stack, given the recent Tiller murder; Abortion.

Personally, I think Abortion is wrong except in cases of rape and molestation. However, I am Pro-Choice, because I don't believe it is the responsibility of the Government to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her vaginal orifice. It is up to the individual, and by proxy, the individual community to help guide that woman in her decision, whichever one she may choose.

Doesn't that sound a hell of a lot better than "It's wrong because Jesus says so" or "I'm going to go have an abortion tonight after class"?

Point being, it's a hell of a lot different than what the 'status quo' is, as far as how and what people argue which I think sounds more like "UH HUH, NUH UH". I say, both sides need to shut the heck up and take a look at what is really going on on the outside of the issue.

Our entire state--nay, our entire country is completely polarized because of this one particular issue. And it is polarized because of the possibility of Government intervention. One says yes. The other says no. Hell, I say that this country has steadily gone downhill since 1973. Not because of the Roe v Wade decision, but because of the media coverage, the instant polarization at the congressional and senate levels, and over 40 years of false promises from politicians to uphold or destroy the legislation.

As a culture, I think we've let this issue ruin us. I think we've let it take over who we are because "people are doing it every day". Yeah, well here's a better idea: Worry about yourself. Don't worry about whether the lady across the street aborts her child in a clinic, or actually has it. If she is going to abort it anyways, she might as well do it in a sterile environment rather than a back alley with a coat hanger tipped in bleach.

However.... at the LOCAL level, with people that you know, you can help guide women who are steering towards abortion away from it and steer them more towards adoption. Lots of people want babies who can't have them. YOU can help at a LOCAL level to determine what happens in your own community. ....I think that's where the disconnect is. Everybody is too busy ramming this issue down everyone's throats that they completely miss what is going on on a local level. In their own neighborhoods. In their own church's, because some woman in another state is killing her baby.

So really, I have to ask the question. What's the point in arguing? Law or not, abortions are going to happen. At that point, the only thing left for the righties to do is pray for those involved, and help them seek guidance. The only thing for the lefties to do is to stop practically running pro-abortion campaigns. Note that I said Pro-Abortion, not Pro Choice. Choice is everything. "The Problem Is Choice!" ---The Architect, Matrix III

This is the one issue that Conservatives simply have to drop as part of their political ambitions. The fight has been going on for the better part of TWO GENERATIONS. It's done, people. Put down the pitchforks and the torches, work in your local communities to stop it from happening---locally---because at the national federal level, there's not a damned thing you can do anymore. And it's important to accept that, and pick up where you are---locally---where you CAN shoulder responsibility personally rather than assuming that someone else will take care of it somewhere down the line thanks to those politicians in Washington.


That actually leads directly into the next bit I have: Personal responsibilities. We've become so damned much of a nationalized nation that we've practically forgotten what it is like to be an INDIVIDUAL STATE. The State of Kansas is an individual amongst 50 others. We have our OWN Senate. We have our OWN Congress. Yet, everyone is always polarized to national issues! How often do you get involved on a local level?

Roe v Wade forced the national-esque platform on this country 36 years ago and polarized this nation on that federal issue, causing practically two generations to forget about local issues that were just as important if not more so. The kind of thing that should bring a tear to the eye of Liberal and Conservative alike. ... what it really means is that nobody is happy, because if everyone polarizes at a national level, then you cannot have local autonomy, and thus you have both liberals and conservatives equally sharing the same area, and both are just as miserable because they cannot get their constituencies votes through. Whereas if the locality is what handles most everything, then you have liberals and conservatives willingly segregating themselves into different districts or towns so that they can have their individual communities and be happy individually.

Thanks to Al Gore and the Environmentalist movement, we have yet another issue that has polarized this nation. It seems like every American generation for the last 100 years has pretty much had a steady course of leaning more and more towards Washington DC for 'what we must do' instead of dealing locally.

You know what I think? To hell with the Federal Government, and to hell with the Senators and the Congressmen and the entire Executive Branch. They do not know better for us down here in the heartland than we do for ourselves with our own LOCAL Senators and LOCAL Congressmen and of course our Governor, as well as our own locally elected individual City Councilmen and Councilwomen.

The Federal Government is there for really two reasons: To hold the union together with mutual trade, open border policy, etc, and to provide a military to protect us from foreign threats. To everything else? PIFFLE!

We need to stop letting Washington steal our attention away from what is going on at home. If we do that, so many things would get better simply by proxy.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Leu

"First thing I noticed showing up at these boards today was the apparent fissure between lefties and righties. Unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of this country wants to just 'pick a side' and call it done. That is something that I completely disagree with on the very principle that it is based on.

There are no sides in these things. There IS however, right, and there is also wrong. But that doesn't mean that each individual 'side' is right or wrong on any individual issue.

I'll take the biggest hotbed issue right off the top of the stack, given the recent Tiller murder; Abortion.

Personally, I think Abortion is wrong except in cases of rape and molestation. However, I am Pro-Choice, because I don't believe it is the responsibility of the Government to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her vaginal orifice. It is up to the individual, and by proxy, the individual community to help guide that woman in her decision, whichever one she may choose.

Doesn't that sound a hell of a lot better than "It's wrong because Jesus says so" or "I'm going to go have an abortion tonight after class"?

Point being, it's a hell of a lot different than what the 'status quo' is, as far as how and what people argue which I think sounds more like "UH HUH, NUH UH". I say, both sides need to shut the heck up and take a look at what is really going on on the outside of the issue.

Our entire state--nay, our entire country is completely polarized because of this one particular issue. And it is polarized because of the possibility of Government intervention. One says yes. The other says no. Hell, I say that this country has steadily gone downhill since 1973. Not because of the Roe v Wade decision, but because of the media coverage, the instant polarization at the congressional and senate levels, and over 40 years of false promises from politicians to uphold or destroy the legislation.

As a culture, I think we've let this issue ruin us. I think we've let it take over who we are because "people are doing it every day". Yeah, well here's a better idea: Worry about yourself. Don't worry about whether the lady across the street aborts her child in a clinic, or actually has it. If she is going to abort it anyways, she might as well do it in a sterile environment rather than a back alley with a coat hanger tipped in bleach.

However.... at the LOCAL level, with people that you know, you can help guide women who are steering towards abortion away from it and steer them more towards adoption. Lots of people want babies who can't have them. YOU can help at a LOCAL level to determine what happens in your own community. ....I think that's where the disconnect is. Everybody is too busy ramming this issue down everyone's throats that they completely miss what is going on on a local level. In their own neighborhoods. In their own church's, because some woman in another state is killing her baby.

So really, I have to ask the question. What's the point in arguing? Law or not, abortions are going to happen. At that point, the only thing left for the righties to do is pray for those involved, and help them seek guidance. The only thing for the lefties to do is to stop practically running pro-abortion campaigns. Note that I said Pro-Abortion, not Pro Choice. Choice is everything. "The Problem Is Choice!" ---The Architect, Matrix III

This is the one issue that Conservatives simply have to drop as part of their political ambitions. The fight has been going on for the better part of TWO GENERATIONS. It's done, people. Put down the pitchforks and the torches, work in your local communities to stop it from happening---locally---because at the national federal level, there's not a damned thing you can do anymore. And it's important to accept that, and pick up where you are---locally---where you CAN shoulder responsibility personally rather than assuming that someone else will take care of it somewhere down the line thanks to those politicians in Washington.


That actually leads directly into the next bit I have: Personal responsibilities. We've become so damned much of a nationalized nation that we've practically forgotten what it is like to be an INDIVIDUAL STATE. The State of Kansas is an individual amongst 50 others. We have our OWN Senate. We have our OWN Congress. Yet, everyone is always polarized to national issues! How often do you get involved on a local level?

Roe v Wade forced the national-esque platform on this country 36 years ago and polarized this nation on that federal issue, causing practically two generations to forget about local issues that were just as important if not more so. The kind of thing that should bring a tear to the eye of Liberal and Conservative alike. ... what it really means is that nobody is happy, because if everyone polarizes at a national level, then you cannot have local autonomy, and thus you have both liberals and conservatives equally sharing the same area, and both are just as miserable because they cannot get their constituencies votes through. Whereas if the locality is what handles most everything, then you have liberals and conservatives willingly segregating themselves into different districts or towns so that they can have their individual communities and be happy individually.

Thanks to Al Gore and the Environmentalist movement, we have yet another issue that has polarized this nation. It seems like every American generation for the last 100 years has pretty much had a steady course of leaning more and more towards Washington DC for 'what we must do' instead of dealing locally.

You know what I think? To hell with the Federal Government, and to hell with the Senators and the Congressmen and the entire Executive Branch. They do not know better for us down here in the heartland than we do for ourselves with our own LOCAL Senators and LOCAL Congressmen and of course our Governor, as well as our own locally elected individual City Councilmen and Councilwomen.

The Federal Government is there for really two reasons: To hold the union together with mutual trade, open border policy, etc, and to provide a military to protect us from foreign threats. To everything else? PIFFLE!

We need to stop letting Washington steal our attention away from what is going on at home. If we do that, so many things would get better simply by proxy.

"There are no sides in these things. There IS however, right, and there is also wrong. But that doesn't mean that each individual 'side' is right or wrong on any individual issue.

I'll take the biggest hotbed issue right off the top of the stack, given the recent Tiller murder; Abortion.

Personally, I think Abortion is wrong except in cases of rape and molestation. However, I am Pro-Choice, because I don't believe it is the responsibility of the Government to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her vaginal orifice. It is up to the individual, and by proxy, the individual community to help guide that woman in her decision, whichever one she may choose."

This is similar to my viewpoint as well, but I got violently attacked for espousing it on an old KS thread. I think personal responsibility should be at the forefront along with excellent sex education at home and at school. Where the Republican party got off-track was when it began to focus intensly on "social issues" as opposed to "fiscal issues." The social conservatives are just obsessed with prying into the personal lives of individuals that should not concern them in the least. I am definitely not for abortion- especially late term ( except in rare circumstances which would include the direct physical life or health of the mother. However, I don't believe in exerting my personal viewpoints on the issue into the private sphere (the personal lives of others). All abortions will never likely be banned in the US, but we can work dilligently through education to make them as rare as possible.

[Leu]

My primary point exactly. Personal responsibility. To self. To family. To neighborhood. To community. To district. To city. To county. To state. To hell with the feds.

As far as you being attacked violently on this issue, that is exactly the problem with it. Anything that can cause people to froth at the mouth in anger is an issue that should not be taken to a public body like the senate. It is something that should be handled in the privacy of one's own home.

.....BRILLIANT idea....

Conservatives shut up about Abortion, and Liberals shut up about Global Warming. ....This country could actually GO somewhere with itself.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Leu

My primary point exactly. Personal responsibility. To self. To family. To neighborhood. To community. To district. To city. To county. To state. To hell with the feds.

As far as you being attacked violently on this issue, that is exactly the problem with it. Anything that can cause people to froth at the mouth in anger is an issue that should not be taken to a public body like the senate. It is something that should be handled in the privacy of one's own home.

.....BRILLIANT idea....

Conservatives shut up about Abortion, and Liberals shut up about Global Warming. ....This country could actually GO somewhere with itself.

This is exactly why Independent-minded centrist voters are the fastest growing voting block in the population