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Old 08-08-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
47 posts, read 129,180 times
Reputation: 73

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I'm trying to make sense of your first point. There's a lot more common folks on the island than billionaire's with beach houses. To me when we say "the people" those are who I am referring to. So no way would a majority of the people support privatizing the beaches. I don't think it matters anyway because I'm pretty sure thats a state law anyway.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:28 PM
 
19 posts, read 47,582 times
Reputation: 16
^ Sure, but I'm saying that if money is / isn't having an impact on what B&Bs stay open, money could just as easily sway changes on policy that affect the ownership of sand. I've seen plenty of laws changed in my own state; just because something is a law today doesn't mean it'll be one tomorrow.

There's no way to truly end this discussion. Policy will negatively impact some and positively impact others.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,350,584 times
Reputation: 10757
Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw1227 View Post
You seem to think that the people who deem this act "illegal" are invincible to things like common sense.
Common sense says, when somebody deliberately and knowingly violates zoning laws... remember, this is not about new regulations at all... with the intention to profit by that violation, they deserve to get whacked when they get caught.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:44 PM
 
19 posts, read 47,582 times
Reputation: 16
^ Agreed.

In my mind, the discussion should pivot to whether or not the zoning laws are sane.

Last edited by southpaw1227; 08-08-2012 at 12:46 PM.. Reason: .
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,821,034 times
Reputation: 6175
Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw1227 View Post
^ To your point, if the county and state really listened to the people, I bet the whole "all Hawaiian beaches are public and cannot be made private by the adjoining homeowner" would go away, too. You really think a billionaire homeowner on the beach enjoys the fact that Hawaiian sand is public, and they can't have that to themselves?

There's a fine line between completely isolating the island from all non-locals, and handling tourism and the money it brings with poise and sensibility. It's quite obvious that your viewpoint will be different depending on whether you're a tourist or a local. I could just as easily argue that the visiting tourists paid for untold advancements in the infrastructure of Kauai, hence they should be valued over locals. I couldn't argue that it'd be "right," in the purest sense of the word, but a reasonable argument could be made.
Well Southpaw - ok, we get it, you really like the Dilly Dally and you are really bummed out and cancelled your ticket to Kauai. You love the place - you seem to have an emotional tie but now are going off on some wild tangents.

Illegal vacation rentals are a problem in the entire state - it isn't a problem just in Kauai. While bad timing for you - the Dilly Dally has known since its inception that the party may end someday.

Yep, tourism and the military pay for most of Hawaii's infrastructure - obviously that drives the economy of Hawaii. But we do have rules and regulations so things don't go out of control.

Lastly, we'd take that bet that the people in Hawaii would overwhelmingly keep all the beaches public. (although there are some exceptions like that private island next to Kauai)
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:22 PM
 
4,918 posts, read 22,643,111 times
Reputation: 6303
Look slike we all got skunked on this... Turns out the new ordinace had reaslly little to do with this after all.

The place was approved and build as a single family residential property.

It was later converted to a B&B.

Upon being converted, it was now in violation of zoing laws.

They were told they need to cease operating as a B&B or apply for a special permit to operate the non conforming business in violation of existing zoining laws.

There was all sorts of delays and question about if a B&B quailfies as some hotel/motel/B&B/Lodging or is it actaully a tarnsient lodging -and other similar things like that.

The country had legal issues to wade through that were being thrown up by the owners/operators. BUT the county always maintained it was an illegal operation on that land.

The new law regarding vacation rentals, transient loding and all that was finally passed and it clearlyy removed B&B from the ordinace because it already existed under the zoing ordinance.

The country went back and said that because the definitions are now clear as to what is what, they have to either cease the B&B operation or apply for a permit. They let them start agin from square one.

Again, they could not meet the existing regulations to operate the B&B and in the end the county rules according to the law and regulations and denied them a permit to operate in violation of the law.

They appealed and now lost.

SO, it was never that a regulation changed, those idiots went and started a B&B in violation of the laws and regulations from the get go! They just finaly are being shut down after they were unable to convince anyone that it should remain open.

Good, Hawaii has enough people just coming and doing what they want that they probably would never allow where they come from!
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Oahu
431 posts, read 937,765 times
Reputation: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
SO, it was never that a regulation changed, those idiots went and started a B&B in violation of the laws and regulations from the get go! They just finaly are being shut down after they were unable to convince anyone that it should remain open.

Good, Hawaii has enough people just coming and doing what they want that they probably would never allow where they come from!
Same crap is happening here on Oahu---all over the state, for that matter. People coming in, buying places with the absolute intention of illegally running vacation rentals/B&B's, placing their ads on VRBO and other internet sites and acting all bent out of shape when they get called on it. Getting their loyal patrons to sign petitions, write letters. Pfffffttttt.

Did a little search on the Dilly Dally place and it seems that as far back as 2009 it looked like they were going to shut down.


The response by the owner looks like a bit of fancy dancing but that's just my take on it, knowing what we know now.
Enough is enough. These islands are gorgeous, fragile, and full of people who actually LIVE here. From what I've seen lately, the trend is definitely heading towards finally curbing some of the madness that has been allowed to thrive and prosper to the detriment of residents and the land itself. Yay.
The OP asked if the zoning laws were sane. Yep, they are. It's the non-enforcement of those zoning laws that had us questioning sanity. Here's hoping that the present trend towards saving our neighborhoods, ag land, and precious natural spaces continues.

Last edited by 7th generation; 08-08-2012 at 03:29 PM.. Reason: sorry but links to Trip Advisor are not allowed here.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Southwest France
1,413 posts, read 3,225,538 times
Reputation: 2462
I'm going to open a pizza parlor in my living room and a massage joint in my back bedroom. Then I'll cheat on my property tax, state & federal income tax. If my nieghbors complain that my customers are taking their parking spots or stealing towels off the balcony, well phooey on them. Southpaws says we should just change the laws to suit me. Or him. Or he's not coming baaack!
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:54 PM
 
1,872 posts, read 2,805,200 times
Reputation: 2168
Having a slice while getting a massage...Sounds like a winner to me!
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,242,250 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joliefille View Post
I'm going to open a pizza parlor in my living room and a massage joint in my back bedroom. Then I'll cheat on my property tax, state & federal income tax. If my nieghbors complain that my customers are taking their parking spots or stealing towels off the balcony, well phooey on them. Southpaws says we should just change the laws to suit me. Or him. Or he's not coming baaack!
Might as well set up some slot machines as while you're at it, like some folks did in Hilo...
Gambling raids net more than $17,000 | Hawaii Tribune Herald
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