Opinions on Mountaintop Removal Mining? (home, bankrupt, living)

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

In today's (Feb 18, 2011) Louisville Courier Journal an articles states that the Kentucky Senate is just about to approve a measure that would make certain areas of Eastern Kentucky exempt from EPA laws. These areas will be called "sanctuaries".

Extremely disappointing.

Another fear is... what's to stop this from happening in other states?

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

In today's (Feb 18, 2011) Louisville Courier Journal an articles states that the Kentucky Senate is just about to approve a measure that would make certain areas of Eastern Kentucky exempt from EPA laws. These areas will be called "sanctuaries".
Anyone who thinks the mountains are beautiful better hurry and have a look. Take photos to show your children how the area once looked.
As I already stated, my sympathies are for the wildlife.

More idiotic short-sighted thinking. The natural landscape is devastated, poverty continues to get worse. It is a lose-lose race to the bottom scenario.

[HiBall]

I will first say...I in no way support MTR in any way, shape,form or fashion.

It is idiotic of me to ask but, it seems to me a lot of people are not for MTR, but, on the other hand has exactly NO plan as to what to do about it. Which, leads me to no other conclusion than, most don't really care, they just need something to B***H about.

I'll give you all one more chance to redeem yourselves...if that's possible, since almost none of you actually live in Eastern Kentucky. What's YOUR plan? As foolish as all of you might think that my plan is/was, I at least have given it serious thought. Okay...let me have it with both barrels, I got big broad shoulders.

I'm all ears.............neither eclectic or electric by the way.

[rnc76]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Extremely disappointing.

Another fear is... what's to stop this from happening in other states?

I really doubt the state has any authority to override the federal government. This seems like a bunch of posturing trying to reinforce the "its us (KY) against them (US government, aka Obama)" mentality that seems to sell.

The attitude of "its my land, I'll do whatever I want with it" disturbs me and ticks me off. Lets put a sewage treatment plant or a pig farm next to these senators house on Lake Cumberland. I bet they'll just say, "well, its their land, it isn't up to me what they do with it". They are bulldozing mountains and thereby polluting everyones drinking water downstream they think it no one else has a right to say anything about it or regulate it. I think what angers me the most is that people in the area support Big Coal. What percentage of the area actually has a coal mining related job?

[CraigCreek]

"What to do with it?", HiBall asks. Okay, I'll offer a few ideas.

First the glaring needs of the area: education, health, transportation, unclean water, inadequate sewage, trash, decaying housing stock, drug abuse - need to be addressed. It's going to take money, clearly, and the question is if we Kentuckians and other Americans love and value this area and the people who live there enough to invest in the needed changes once coal is gone or no longer able to sustain the population. That population may well be too large, so outmigration needs to be put on the table as well. Voluntary outmigration, for economic betterment, until/unless things improve.

So once the infrastructure is bettered and in place, and the populace is healthier and better educated, then what? Work the daylights out of tourism.

Promote and improve the existing parks and recreational/tourist facilities and attractions of various kinds, and add more. Focus on the area's history and remaining strengths: the most diverse, richest forest in the world once grew here. This was a botanical "island" during the glaciers. A few rare areas of that forest still remain virgin - protect them and tempt people to want to visit them (the two are not necessarily contradictory - eco-tourism can be done without damaging the environment).

The second-growth forests are still present in many places, and while not pristine, are also beautiful and rich with recreational possibilities: hiking, photography, bird and nature watching, horseback riding, camping, canoeing, kayaking, horse-drawn wagon rides on existing roads...all of these can be done at present to some degree. Do more, and publicize what E. KY has to offer! Improve signage along scenic roads and paths.

Add parks and resorts (both public and privately owned) with rustic but modern and comfortable cabins and lodges such as are found in some of our state parks, include reasonably priced restaurants with excellent "home-style" meals and ranger-led programs, add playgrounds, swimming pools, tubing, picnicking, etc. and make these attractions as physically accessible as possible for those with physical limitations.

Offer day-to-week-long outdoorsmanship programs and camps for both children and adults, along with wildflower week, geology week, watercolor week, photography week, mountain heritage week, traditional music and dance week, fall folliage week, etc. Survey existing tourists and visitors to see what their interests are. Survey those who haven't visited to find out why. Then follow through.

Needless to say, hire local people to plan and construct these new facilities and to keep them going once they are in place.

Encourage and add to the number of local festivals, promote and encourage traditional arts, crafts and music, encourage small farming of heirloom fruits, vegetables and free-range eggs for local and tourist markets. Preserve the heirloom produce and promote it to the gourmet market.

That won't do it all, of course, so bring in small, clean manufacturing. And yes, put more than a few such small factories onto MTR sites - just make sure the sites are geologically stable, first.

Those who can't find work in the above areas could help do better restoration of the ravaged mountains. They will never be the same, but they could be a lot better.

"Now, if I had ten million, somewhere thereabouts..." ...I'd invest it in some of these areas. It would be a huge immediate outlay of cash, but such an investment, on a regional scale, just might be the salvation of our endangered mountains and their people.

[censusdata]

Seems like the question is weather tourism will ever come back given the region's reputation for crime and environmental destruction. Western North Carolina and East Tennessee are doing great with zero coal jobs

[HiBall]

Originally Posted by CraigCreek

"What to do with it?", HiBall asks. Okay, I'll offer a few ideas.

First the glaring needs of the area: education, health, transportation, unclean water, inadequate sewage, trash, decaying housing stock, drug abuse - need to be addressed. It's going to take money, clearly, and the question is if we Kentuckians and other Americans love and value this area and the people who live there enough to invest in the needed changes once coal is gone or no longer able to sustain the population. That population may well be too large, so outmigration needs to be put on the table as well. Voluntary outmigration, for economic betterment, until/unless things improve.

So once the infrastructure is bettered and in place, and the populace is healthier and better educated, then what? Work the daylights out of tourism.

Promote and improve the existing parks and recreational/tourist facilities and attractions of various kinds, and add more. Focus on the area's history and remaining strengths: the most diverse, richest forest in the world once grew here. This was a botanical "island" during the glaciers. A few rare areas of that forest still remain virgin - protect them and tempt people to want to visit them (the two are not necessarily contradictory - eco-tourism can be done without damaging the environment).

The second-growth forests are still present in many places, and while not pristine, are also beautiful and rich with recreational possibilities: hiking, photography, bird and nature watching, horseback riding, camping, canoeing, kayaking, horse-drawn wagon rides on existing roads...all of these can be done at present to some degree. Do more, and publicize what E. KY has to offer! Improve signage along scenic roads and paths.

Add parks and resorts (both public and privately owned) with rustic but modern and comfortable cabins and lodges such as are found in some of our state parks, include reasonably priced restaurants with excellent "home-style" meals and ranger-led programs, add playgrounds, swimming pools, tubing, picnicking, etc. and make these attractions as physically accessible as possible for those with physical limitations.

Offer day-to-week-long outdoorsmanship programs and camps for both children and adults, along with wildflower week, geology week, watercolor week, photography week, mountain heritage week, traditional music and dance week, fall folliage week, etc. Survey existing tourists and visitors to see what their interests are. Survey those who haven't visited to find out why. Then follow through.

Needless to say, hire local people to plan and construct these new facilities and to keep them going once they are in place.

Encourage and add to the number of local festivals, promote and encourage traditional arts, crafts and music, encourage small farming of heirloom fruits, vegetables and free-range eggs for local and tourist markets. Preserve the heirloom produce and promote it to the gourmet market.

That won't do it all, of course, so bring in small, clean manufacturing. And yes, put more than a few such small factories onto MTR sites - just make sure the sites are geologically stable, first.

Those who can't find work in the above areas could help do better restoration of the ravaged mountains. They will never be the same, but they could be a lot better.

"Now, if I had ten million, somewhere thereabouts..." ...I'd invest it in some of these areas. It would be a huge immediate outlay of cash, but such an investment, on a regional scale, just might be the salvation of our endangered mountains and their people.

Out Standing....,as you all know, I couldn't have said it better. Finally someone that has a plan. 10 million...hum, that would do a lot. What percentage of the people, that live somewhere other than Eastern Kentucky, that would support such an amount? It's obvious to me it would take Federal money so, lets include the whole USA.

"What to do with it"..."What to do about it". Either way good job, who is next?

[HiBall]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Seems like the question is weather tourism will ever come back given the region's reputation for crime and environmental destruction. Western North Carolina and East Tennessee are doing great with zero coal jobs

Well if that's the case we need to get started on I-66 then, huh?

[CraigCreek]

HiBall, my quote of "... if I had ten million" was excerpted from Viper, Ky native Jean Ritchie's song, "Black Waters".

Glad you liked my post.

[rnc76]

Originally Posted by HiBall

I will first say...I in no way support MTR in any way, shape,form or fashion.

It is idiotic of me to ask but, it seems to me a lot of people are not for MTR, but, on the other hand has exactly NO plan as to what to do about it. Which, leads me to no other conclusion than, most don't really care, they just need something to B***H about.

I'll give you all one more chance to redeem yourselves...if that's possible, since almost none of you actually live in Eastern Kentucky. What's YOUR plan? As foolish as all of you might think that my plan is/was, I at least have given it serious thought. Okay...let me have it with both barrels, I got big broad shoulders.

I'm all ears.............neither eclectic or electric by the way.

Obviously, we need coal at this time. However, I think only about 10% or less of the coal in this country comes by way of MTR. Coal fired plants produce roughly 50% of the power going into the grid in the US. I see no reasonable reason why we need to destroy 300 million year old mountains for what amounts to less than 5% of our energy needs. I think proper use of alternative energies and modest conservation efforts we can make up for the loss of the 10% of coal we get through MTR. We need to develop wind and solar but most importantly nuclear. Nuclear is the only viable large scale energy source we have right now to replace coal. Solar, wind, geothermal... are all good supplemental sources in local areas but they can't provide all the energy we need.

Now how do you replace the jobs lost by MTR in Appalachia? Well, first of all, the entire purpose of MTR is to allow coal companies to mine more coal with less employees. Deep mining would provide more jobs. I do realize it is more dangerous and more expensive to get to the coal. But I think if we want the coal, that is the price we have to pay, we have no right to flatten mountains IMO. There are roughly 15,000+ mining jobs in Eastern KY right now, which is less than half of what there was 30 years ago. The region defined as the "Eastern Coal Fields" region has about 730,000 residents give or take.
Eastern Mountain Coal Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So roughly 2% of the population has a coal mining job. Most of these counties have poverty rates exceeding 30% and by all metrics (and by what I've seen with my own eyes) are some of the most impoverished areas in the country. Obviously, coal mining isn't providing very much opportunity for the region. Even a modest amount of tourism could provide a significant offset or even replace those jobs. Areas like Natural Bridge/Red River Gorge, The Breakers, Big South Fork, Jenny Wiley, Kingdom Come and many of the lakes are very undeveloped in terms of tourism. Eastern KY will never be a Gatlinburg (thats a good thing IMO) or an Asheville, but it has very beautiful areas that many from the midwest bypass on the way to the Smokies. Heck, even people that live IN Kentucky rarely think of vacationing in Eastern KY, they head to the TN, NC and even WV mountains. I think in this process, the Appalachian culture needs to be celebrated. I think areas like Gatlinburg and Asheville have ignored or tried to hide their Appalachian roots while trying to lure tourists. Areas I've been to in WV seem to embrace the Appalachian culture more. KY could follow that model to provide a vacation that provides beautiful natural surroundings as well as a cultural experience.