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Old 12-10-2007, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,573 posts, read 21,722,776 times
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When I ask a question I ask it in all honestly, and would like an honest answer whether it is an opinion or fact..( as long as it is clarified either way) I believe I would be comfortable asking Tom a question..
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Old 12-10-2007, 08:39 AM
 
Location: northeast US
739 posts, read 1,883,088 times
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Tomocox, what do you mean by capture a free ride?

To play devils advocate...you say there was a "stigma" of racism, but you refer to specific recent incidents in the community. A stigma is a perception of how the community is, right or wrong, but the incidents are real proof of what to expect.

As that ebony-ivory couple, we would be very attuned to all those buzzwords, events, perceptions. We might buy there anyway but would prefer to do it with open eyes.

Since these people were looking for a commercial property, I'll add that I would be concerned about whether anyone in that community would patronize my business after all my investment, or maybe vandalize it, vandalize my car, start false rumors that there are drugs involved, all the nasty things I've seen people do. To be fair to the many decent, well-intentioned southerners, it wouldn't happen just in Kentucky but here in Massachusetts, too.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,807,884 times
Reputation: 2116
I am not trying to avoid responding, but I want to hear people other than myself speak.

But to clarify, the incident of which I started this thread did occur. What is and shall remain a mystery is my reply to the people, but the event cut a scar into me and I have never wholely reconciled myself to what would have been the best response.

What people forget, especially politicians, is the power of the free market. When people of any ethnical/racial group forget the power of people of another group, it becomes a point of "cutting off one's nose to spite their face." As a real estate broker, I have actively recruited for a cosmopolitian make-up of our staff, unfortunately this has not been a successful part of my business plan. In part, I realize due to the low population ratios, but in my office, I do have team members with non-traditional marital make-ups and I enjoy the diversity. I have attempted to recruit from Moscow, Nirobi, Vera Cruse, Tokyo/Peking, London, and even downtown Podunk.

I want to see a truly colorblind world, but occasionally, like most baby boomers, my wishes fight with my memories.

Again, my question, "If you are seeking to purchase in an area considered hostile to people of your racial/ethnic/relationship group, do you want to be told about the area, or do you want to discover the area's history by yourself?"

Btw: "Free Riders," those people who would intentionally test a Realtor without plans to ever buy, only to get a free home, or to create an "I gotcha."
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,573 posts, read 21,722,776 times
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First, I would want to be told what could be expected and why..No offense to you Tom, but I would also seek other opinions..Then a trip to the library to research via old newspaper articles..I have learned that you have to follow your instincts, too. I would also frequent different places of business to get a feel of the way customers of different races are treated. I would definitely attend church, go to a movie and get my hair done...Best place to gather information is at the beauty shop..Seriously
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Reston, VA
915 posts, read 3,977,170 times
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Disclaimer: I'm typing this as fast as I can because I need to get cracking with work, so please overlook any typos.

To Tom: My $0.02 worth.

As someone who is forever reading the Real Estate Board, I know that some realtors feel that their code of business prevents them from making any statements concerning the "temperament" of a neighborhood/area, so I would not ask them.

However, I would not have a problem if the realtor told me, "Virgo, I'll let you concentrate on finding the best neighborhood/area for you, and once you have, then I'll concentrate on finding you the best house within your paraments of bedrooms, bathrooms, square footage, lot size, price, etc."

Neighborhoods and geographical areas are not finite in terms of population (yes, I know that in some cases, no one ever moves in or out of an area). What I'm trying to say is that the demographics of an area can change yearly or even monthly. I could move into a supposedly friendly neighborhood in June, have my next door neighbors move out, only to be replaced by some holy terrors. Gee, who saw that coming?

For me, personally, no one could guarantee the temperament of an area because people come and go. One year, you could be in a supposedly satisfactory area, and the next year, you could have a meth addict, or an opiate addict, or a pedophile (who has not been caught yet), or an alcoholic, or a schizophrenic, or a skin head, etc. in your subdivision causing mischief/harm.

I would not have a problem with a realtor mentioning to me that one of the best ways to get a feel for an area is to "hit the pavement." That I need to spend face time in post offices, restaurants, butcher shops, coffee shops, grocery stores, police departments asking questions about recent crime, 7-11s, etc. That I need to drive thru neighborhoods on weekday nights, weekend party nights, when the kids are out of school, during the day, etc. That I need to spend a little time reading the local newspaper published in an area that I'm interested in.

Situations that are so dangerous that my life would be threatened are probably going to have some sort of paper trail or police dept. trail (murders, rapes, car thefts, muggings, severe frequent flooding, cross burnings, tornadoes, radiation leaks, blah, blah). I would expect a realtor to not have a problem mentioning that an area had a problem with blah, blah, blah because they could point me in the direction of a paper trail. (Translation = I do the research and draw my own conclusions. They did their part by bringing it to my attention).

Tom, this is what I think. Hope you can make heads or tails of it all.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:36 AM
 
Location: northeast US
739 posts, read 1,883,088 times
Reputation: 446
Tomocox, I see more where you're coming from now and I appreciate your courage in thinking through what is a very touchy subject.

Again, if there were past problems I would want you to tell me and not let me go like a chump into a potentially bad situation. Knowledge is power.

We've never had a realtor discuss race with us, it's a high voltage live wire subject, so we figure we're on our own to take our chances. I think if you were our realtor and offered us that kind of information, short of steering, we would more likely trust you.

I can't imagine wanting to create a "gotcha" from it, or turning around and suing you later, etc. But I can imagine if you didn't tell us something everyone in the area would know, if there was a problem for us later, we might be very angry at you for concealing the information.
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Old 12-12-2007, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Victoria, Canada
90 posts, read 316,374 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by willdufauve View Post
Tomocox, what do you mean by capture a free ride?

To play devils advocate...you say there was a "stigma" of racism, but you refer to specific recent incidents in the community. A stigma is a perception of how the community is, right or wrong, but the incidents are real proof of what to expect.

As that ebony-ivory couple, we would be very attuned to all those buzzwords, events, perceptions. We might buy there anyway but would prefer to do it with open eyes.

Since these people were looking for a commercial property, I'll add that I would be concerned about whether anyone in that community would patronize my business after all my investment, or maybe vandalize it, vandalize my car, start false rumors that there are drugs involved, all the nasty things I've seen people do. To be fair to the many decent, well-intentioned southerners, it wouldn't happen just in Kentucky but here in Massachusetts, too.
Wildufauve, as I stated before, if it were me and I were planning on moving to a community and wasnt't sure how the town folk would react to me being ivory and my significant other being ebony, my decision to move there would all depend on what kind of reaction we got when visiting around town.
There were alot of people in my hometown of Pulaski County who frowned on it and would probably make you feel very unwelcome there. However, on the other hand, there were alot there that would welcome you both with open arms. I had never heard of vehicles being vandalized. I have heard of things such as this happening in different states. It seems a person could get a good or bad feeling about a town after visiting the town afew times, before deciding to open a business, or purchase a home.
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:28 PM
 
Location: USA
1,899 posts, read 4,153,953 times
Reputation: 2013
My goodness, there's plenty of interracial couples in KY, even in small, rural towns. Plenty of gay people, too.
Nothing to worry about...I'd say people in the new town are going to be a lot like people in the old town......
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:20 PM
 
Location: northeast US
739 posts, read 1,883,088 times
Reputation: 446
Sundance, if you read these forums enough you surely know that one of the most common areas of concern when people are considering moving to a new, unfamiliar area is race.

It's not a concern for the majority race or culture, they don't have to be concerned, but it's a very strong concern for many, if not most, minorities and interracial/multi-racial couples and families. It's something we worry about because we bear the burden of it when things don't go well. It depends which side of the door your on.
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:20 AM
 
Location: USA
1,899 posts, read 4,153,953 times
Reputation: 2013
Quote:
It's not a concern for the majority race or culture, they don't have to be concerned, but it's a very strong concern for many, if not most, minorities and interracial/multi-racial couples and families. It's something we worry about because we bear the burden of it when things don't go well. It depends which side of the door your on.
Just making the point that I have lived in western KY the majority of my life and am qualified to have an opinion of racism/homophobia, or the lack thereof, in the area.

Actually, I see very little of either here.
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