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Bottom line, Louisville loses a higher proportion of its taxes than almost anywhere in the state.
True. And I think Louisville should get a larger share of the tax revenues it pays in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stx12499
Why does it seem like Louisville gets so much? Because it is like NYC compared to somewhere like Owensboro.
Actually, Owensboro and Louisville are much closer in size and ratio than Louisville and NYC. Let's not exaggerate the size of Louisville.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stx12499
You think 200 million is a lot? Louisville has multiple conventions a year that pull that in tourism in one day.
Again, let's not exaggerate to prove a point. This comment is so far from the truth it's not even funny. I believe the largest convention in the state is the annual American Quilter's Society show in Paducah drawing somewhere in the neighborhood of 35,000 for 5 days. Assuming an average of $300/day/visitor that's only $10.5 million per day.
Owensboro has a metro area of 112,000 compared to 1.25 million for Louisville. Louisville has multiple suburbs as large as or larger than Owensboro. Louisville's Indiana suburbs alone are much larger than Ownesboro and get to use everything Louisville offers without paying taxes.
I've noticed an interesting phenomenon in the state of Kentucky. It seems that everyone feels like his or her own little corner of the state is being neglected, while all of Kentucky's tax dollars are spent elsewhere. So, who is really being ripped off? Here are some numbers I've found, from the 2003 fiscal year:
State Tax Dollars Received for Every Dollar Collected Cities in metropolitan areas:
Hopkinsville 1.16
Bowling Green 1.07
Elizabethtown 1.05
*********************
Ashland 0.87
Owensboro 0.85
Henderson 0.83
Lexington 0.82
N. Kentucky (Cincy metro) 0.64
Louisville 0.59
Cities in micropolitan areas:
Frankfort 4.92
Middlesboro 2.07
Central City 1.69
Danville 1.63
Murray 1.61
Richmond/Berea 1.44
Corbin 1.43
Somerset 1.40
Madisonville 1.38
Mayfield 1.35
Maysville 1.35
Mt. Sterling 1.35
London 1.21
Glasgow 1.16
Campbellsville 1.07
*********************
Union City 0.69
Paducah 0.63
The above list shows that most of the larger population centers of the state receive less tax dollars than they send to the state, while the smaller towns generally receive more tax dollars than they send to the state. I suspect the rural areas receive even more money for each dollar they send to the state. It's also not surprising to see that Frankfort gets a return of almost $5.00 per dollar.
Kentucky's transportation funding is especially interesting. State law actually favors rural counties when distributing transportation money. I won't take the time to explain this here, but if you want to learn about it, google the phrase, "Formula of the Fifths." Some counties receive far less than $1.00 in transportation funds for every $1.00 in gas taxes that the state collects from those counties. Here's a list of the 18 Kentucky counties that received less than 64 cents for every dollar in gas taxes they sent to the state:
Boyd
Carter
Montgomery
Fayette
Jessamine
Scott
Boone
Shelby
Henry
Oldham
Jefferson
Bullitt
Warren
Simpson
Christian
Daviess
Henderson
McCracken
All of the above counties are near the cities/metro areas of Ashland, Lexington, Northern Kentucky/Cincinnati, Louisville, Bowling Green, Hopkinsville, Owensboro, Henderson, and Paducah. These are the most populous areas of the state, where most of the population, and therefore most of the traffic, is located. However, these counties receive less money than they send to Frankfort.
Obviously, with such large income disparities throughout the state, the higher income areas (the cities) will probably never receive as much money as the state collects from them. However, they probably should probably receive a better rate of return from the state. I think Louisville residents have a valid complaint, as do Lexington and Northern Kentucky. Even the smaller cities of Owensboro, Ashland, and especially Paducah can complain a little.
Oh, and in response to the original question of this thread...I don't hate Louisville. If Louisville ever seceded, Kentucky would really be broke.
I can't believe how little Paducah receives compared to how much it pays in. I knew they got less than they paid, but I had no idea it was that low. Part of the problem is that "corporate" Paducah is considerably larger than the "population" Paducah, so it produces huge amounts of income tax revenue for its population size and land area. It's actually a very urban and dense city. It's surprising to me that it hasn't been labelled its own MSA because it's much bigger than some of the MSA's listed in Kentucky.
In my opinion, the pay-in/pay-out ratio should be between .85 and 1.15 for every county. That would even things out. And for sake of fairness I would not county higher education in the equation because that's clearly separate from infrastructure costs and social program costs.
The Village Idiot brought forth some non-idiotic yet totally not surprising statistics about who receives appropriations from the state. The scale's tilted HEAVILY towards the rural-most areas of the state almost to the point of "Wow!"
If Jefferson and Kenton Counties even received TEN CENTS more per dollar than they presently do, there could be some major...(cough) bridge projects that are much need that could be expedited.
I can't believe how little Paducah receives compared to how much it pays in. I knew they got less than they paid, but I had no idea it was that low. Part of the problem is that "corporate" Paducah is considerably larger than the "population" Paducah, so it produces huge amounts of income tax revenue for its population size and land area. It's actually a very urban and dense city. It's surprising to me that it hasn't been labelled its own MSA because it's much bigger than some of the MSA's listed in Kentucky.
In my opinion, the pay-in/pay-out ratio should be between .85 and 1.15 for every county. That would even things out. And for sake of fairness I would not county higher education in the equation because that's clearly separate from infrastructure costs and social program costs.
The problem with Paducah is it doesn't meet U.S Census criteria for a Metro area, despite having the economic characteristics of one. The main criteria is a core city of at least 50,000, there are other criteria involving population density, which Paducah doesn't meet either.
Basically Paducah has what one might call detached suburbs. Towns of 5,000 or more, that have anywhere from 10 to 50 miles of rural area between them and the Paducah city limits. If these towns were adjacent to Paducah, and if Paducah had 50,000 people residing within the city limits, the Census would declare it a MSA. As is, statistically it meets the definition of a micropolitan area, although in reality it gives the appearance of a small metro area.
Without knowing the numbers, a person new to the area would likely estimate Paducah as having 100,000 or more population.
I know there was an effort recently by Paducah economic development officials to upgrade its status. There are numerous MSAs that do not have a core city of 50,000, and there are several MSAs that are actually smaller than Paducah's microlitan statistical area. The Elizabethtown MSA is a good example as it has less population in its core city than Paducah does.
It is what it is, and it probably doesn't matter in the long run if you're metro or mitro though.
I know there was an effort recently by Paducah economic development officials to upgrade its status. There are numerous MSAs that do not have a core city of 50,000, and there are several MSAs that are actually smaller than Paducah's microlitan statistical area. The Elizabethtown MSA is a good example as it has less population in its core city than Paducah does.
It is what it is, and it probably doesn't matter in the long run if you're metro or mitro though.
I know there's exceptions to the 50,000 requirement, but Paducah doesn't qualify under those either. Also, there's been resistance in the past on the Illinois side, because some of our locals think the state would start requiring vehicle emission tests, if we we're a metro area. We would add about 25,000 to the Paducah metro. We're geographically closer than most surrounding KY towns, so it's a given we would be included in the MSA.
Paducah probably has more big national retail stores and restaurants, without being a MSA, than any other place in the nation.
True. And I think Louisville should get a larger share of the tax revenues it pays in.
Actually, Owensboro and Louisville are much closer in size and ratio than Louisville and NYC. Let's not exaggerate the size of Louisville.
Again, let's not exaggerate to prove a point. This comment is so far from the truth it's not even funny. I believe the largest convention in the state is the annual American Quilter's Society show in Paducah drawing somewhere in the neighborhood of 35,000 for 5 days. Assuming an average of $300/day/visitor that's only $10.5 million per day.
Owensboro has a metro area of 112,000 compared to 1.25 million for Louisville. Louisville has multiple suburbs as large as or larger than Owensboro. Louisville's Indiana suburbs alone are much larger than Ownesboro and get to use everything Louisville offers without paying taxes.
Nope you are very wrong on all points. Do the math. Louisville metro is almost 12 times larger than Oboro metro, whereas NYC metro is 15 times larger than Louisville. Seems like a similar jump as a ratio.
Thanks to the Village Idiot for pointing out the FACTS. The facts are, the Louisville MSA gets SCREWED. It is absolutely incredible that the ENTIRE KY SIDE OF THE LOUISVILLE MSA was on the the top 18 counties for losing the most tax money. Unreal.
35,000 is small beans. Louisville and Indy are bidding for the FFA which will bring 70,000 to the city. All the states largest events are in Louisville from Thunder, Derby and its festivals, to the state fair. A quilt festival is nice for a small town but it can't compete with a city that competes with the top convention cities for some of the largest conventions in the biggest convention spaces. This data is older, from 1997, but Louisville is still a top 20 convention city:
The last time I check 15 (actually 16 times when measuring the CSAs) is larger than 12. Therefore my point holds.
I realize that Louisville is currently bidding (and bidding is much different than actually hosting - my comment was the "current largest") for the FFA convention, although the numbers I keep seeing for that are 50,000 people. A very large convention without a doubt. But it's not reality yet. And until the FFA convention is won, the Quilt Show in Paducah will reign as the state's largest convention. Even if the FFA comes, it won't come close to providing $200 million dollars a day like you claimed.
This is one of the things that people in the rest of the state don't like about Louisville. This sense of superiority and enlightenment compared to the rest of the state is unfounded and ridiculous. Yes, you're far bigger than any other city in the state, but that doesn't mean you're God's gift to Kentucky.
Nope you are very wrong on all points. Do the math. Louisville metro is almost 12 times larger than Oboro metro, whereas NYC metro is 15 times larger than Louisville. Seems like a similar jump as a ratio.
Thanks to the Village Idiot for pointing out the FACTS. The facts are, the Louisville MSA gets SCREWED. It is absolutely incredible that the ENTIRE KY SIDE OF THE LOUISVILLE MSA was on the the top 18 counties for losing the most tax money. Unreal.
35,000 is small beans. Louisville and Indy are bidding for the FFA which will bring 70,000 to the city. All the states largest events are in Louisville from Thunder, Derby and its festivals, to the state fair. A quilt festival is nice for a small town but it can't compete with a city that competes with the top convention cities for some of the largest conventions in the biggest convention spaces. This data is older, from 1997, but Louisville is still a top 20 convention city:
Notice the Kentucky Expo Center there. Yeah, that's Louisville.
Shouldn't a moderator be somewhat unbiased? This board is devolving into 3 or 4 people bashing the rest of the state. As a Kentuckian from one of the smaller, utterly pitiful and unimportant towns in Kentucky, I never used to hate Louisville, but the city's representatives on this forum changing my mind one post at a time.
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