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I agree with the panel who discussed this whole thing.... We are Southern with Midwest influence and if someone who is grasping at straws by using where the cities are to say we aren't then I am definately going to need more than that to change my mind.
Actually, the more I've thought about it over the last few months, it just makes sense to admit that Kentucky's a Southern state. So, there's my opinion!
I will still state that Louisville is a predominantly Midwestern city with Southern influence and that Northern Kentucky is a very Midwestern region (north of Crittenden) with nearly minimal Southern influence.
Actually, the more I've thought about it over the last few months, it just makes sense to admit that Kentucky's a Southern state. So, there's my opinion!
I will still state that Louisville is a predominantly Midwestern city with Southern influence and that Northern Kentucky is a very Midwestern region (north of Crittenden) with nearly minimal Southern influence.
I will say that the old city limits of Louisville is more midwestern but outside the Watterson (as it says in those notes I posted) is where the South starts and I very much agree.
The thing that seperates Kentucky from the Midwest is the rural black population in certain parts of the state. This is not uniform across the state just as it isn't uniform in other Southern states. The Midwest doesn't have this pattern or rural black concentrations, which are legacy of slavery.
very true, look at this map of black owned farms. if you download the map here you can see it much better. it basically mirrors the population of slaves in the US around the 1860s. and it proves that kentucky has a black rural population, there is kind of a belt from the bluegrass region to middle tennessee of rural blacks
and to the man from charlotte. the appalachian region (eastern kentucky) is very white, but so is eastern tennessee western NORTH CAROLINA, wester virginia, and north georgia, all part of the appalachian region.
also, kentucky, all of tennessee except memphis area, all of arkansas except southwest, northern alabama, norther georgia, western virginia, western north carolina, and texas (not east tx), have similar racial makeup, with some rural blacks in the non-appalachian areas, but not the the same level as to what could be considered the black belt.
the white of this region are of different descent than midwestern whites.
Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 10-20-2009 at 08:40 PM..
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Much of Kentucky's population lives in tight urban/suburban counties on the Ohio River. These counties make up 25% of the total state population yet they only account for 2% of the state's total land area. Being that cities (not farms) set the tone for a state's economy and culture, I'd have to say Kentucky is more midwestern than Southern. In the times I have visited Louisville, I saw a city that was more Midwestern than Southern. The same can be said for the Cincy suburbs. Even though most of Kentucky's land has a southern population, most Kentuckians live near or north of I-64. Kentucky is VERY "top heavy" because it is more in line with the Midwest. If KY were a true "southern" state, the population would be more "bottom heavy" (or spread more evenly) IMO.
first of all, 25 percent is not more than 75 percent. so if 25 percent is urban/suburban counties on the ohio (even assuming none of that culture is southern in character), that wouldnt be more midwestern, and wouldnt be the predominant culture.
and tennessee has big cities too, populated with people from the midwest, same with the atlanta area.
and people in boyle county havent exactly had the "tone" of their culture set by lousiville. at all. danville residents don't even go to lousiville. if they associate with any city its lexington.
lousiville and cincy suburbs have midwestern characteristics because people moved their recently. the rest of the state, that didnt happen so they have their original culture. and it is not set by louisville.
in fact many non lousivillian kentuckians dont associate with it, or northern kentucky at all.
so NO, the tone of the states culture is NOT, set by lousiville and cincy, and neither is the economy, or definitely not more the tennessee or north carolina. kentucky is really rural overall.
Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 10-20-2009 at 08:45 PM..
Which states (culturally speaking of course) would you group Kentucky with?
this is because you know nothing of U.S. history, and have never heard of the great migration. Kentucky used to be 25 percent black. its not that hard to migrate away kentucky.
look up the great migration
and the reason why appalachian regions of kentucky, tennessee, virginia, georgia, and north carolina dont have large black population is because even though slavery was legal there, you cant grow crops in the mountains
Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 10-20-2009 at 08:27 PM..
In the "real South" you DO NOT have to ask for "sweet" tea. It is understood that if you want tea, you want it sweet. Gotta LOVE the South!!!
man, that is complete B.S. there is an ITALIAN restaraunt called joe bolognas here in lexington, even they serve sweet tea and they arent even of the southern food genre. come on...you been to louisville, youve met some appalachian folks. thats it. you havent really been around buddy.
ive got family in asheville, durham, and wilmington. at the family reunion this year down in danville ky, we all went out to a restaurant called the Kentucky Depot (five minutes away in stanford). i ordered a country fried steak, green beans, and fried okra, and it came with cornbread and sweat tea, buddy. yes, sweet tea, they serve it like water there.
guess what, my north carolinian family members are no different than the kentucky ones. you dont know what you're talking about because you havent really experienced kentucky culture. you think cincy suburbs are kentucky culture? kentucky was originally settled by virginia (was a part of virginia) and the carolinas, thats where it got its ORIGINAL culture. that whole cincy suburb thing is very recent.
and really this perception of kentucky as being midwestern is recent too. look at this cartoon from the 1940's (be aware that it is quite racist) i know its just an stupid cartoon but this is how kentucky was percieved in that time period (its loosely based upon uncle tom's cabin, a story about slavery in kentucky)
i mean have you ever heard of the northwest ordininance? the ohio river has been a divider between north and south since the states on it were founded. it was said that everything south of the ohio was to be slave states (kentucky tennessee), and everything north would be free. that is how the stae was founded. thats the orginal culture. and thats before people from other regions started to settle on the ohio river. when louisville was founded nobody even lived in indiana. so much for your "top heavy" theory.
i mean learn some history. really, a simple history 108 class at UK has taught me enough to debunk your little "theories". i mean come on, there are bible belt preachers showing up at UK practically daily yelling about "sinners" and the "evils of pornography". find that at notre dame.
kentucky and tennessee have more in common with each other than they do with any other states. although some folks in those states may not like to admit it due to SEC rivalries, it is true. i have lived here, and at UK met people from all over the state. i know this, you do not. when it comes to facts about charlotte, you're the expert. on this you are not
Last edited by JimmyJohnWilson; 10-20-2009 at 08:28 PM..
Kentucky has never and never will be in the Midwest. The WHOLE state of Kentucky is southern (that means you N. Kentucky), not just a portion of it. (Also the whole state of West Virginia is southern)
The weather has nothing to do with being southern because if the temperature in Georgia became the same as Ohio's this would not make Georgia a northern state (culturally or geographically)
Just because the northern half of the state may have cultural Midwest INFLUENCES, does not mean that Kentucky becomes a Midwestern state. You can go to other threads and the same question will be asked if Cincinnati or Southern Ohio is really southern. OF COURSE NOT! Cincinnati is a Midwest city that borders (guess what) the South.
I think it is a bad argument to make that if you look at a map, Kentucky is not in the South. Well if you look at a map, Indiana is east, but ask a New Yorker if Indiana is an Eastern state and the answer would be an emphatic ...HECK NO.
Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina ... Ky in this group makes sense
Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesotta, Kentucky ... KY in this group does not make sense
And just because Kentucky did not want to break away from the Union (although there were plenty of southern sympathizers) only means that a southern state did not want to break from the Union.
I love this reply. You got it Kentucky is Southern and every part of Kentucky is Southern somehow, someway. Even Northern Kentucky is Southern. "Northern" means that is just in the northern part of Kentucky. And yes West Virginia is Southern, too.
The weather of Kentucky will it is quite Southern since Kentucky does have a humid subtropical climate (the dominant climate of the South) with some parts touching the humid continental climate (the dominant climate of the Midwest) in a transitional climate zone that is. The summers of Kentucky are humid and quite hot and the winters in some parts can be harsh with sporadic heavy snow melting away more quickly so Kentucky's winters are not like New England's winters. Also it rains a lot in Kentucky during the winter even in Northern Kentucky. In fact it rains more than snows in the winter. Also you can grow subtropical plants such as the Southern magnolia, crape myrtle, and needle palm in Kentucky. So if someone from New England visits Kentucky they will think there's hot weather.
About the Midwestern influences sure it can be in some parts of Kentucky but not in rural Kentucky. Only in urban and suburban parts of Kentucky will there be Midwestern influences and those Midwestern influences really mean nothing to Kentucky. BTW many people in Northern Kentucky are arguing that where they live are not suburbs of Cincinnati. Read this article (Northern Kentucky is Not a Suburb of Cincinnati - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com) Places in Northern Kentucky would be suburbs of either Covington or Newport which are in KENTUCKY as Cincinnati is in OHIO. And yes Cincinnati is a Midwestern city because it's in a Midwestern state and Louisville is a Southern city because it's in a Southern state. I live in Northern Kentucky and I never say I'm from Cincinnati. I say I'm from Kentucky and I hate when people say I live in Cincinnati. Another thing is that Midwestern states are know for growing corn, wheat, and soybeans and Kentucky is not known for that. Kentucky is known for growing tobacco and so is North Carolina and Virginia which are, too Southern states.
Also if you are from Kentucky go to any state that is really Midwestern such as Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, or Wisconsin folks there will think your from the South.
Last but not least during the Civil War, Kentucky neither joined or seceded from the Union.
this is because you know nothing of U.S. history, and have never heard of the great migration. Kentucky used to be 25 percent black. its not that hard to migrate away kentucky.
look up the great migration
and the reason why appalachian regions of kentucky, tennessee, virginia, georgia, and north carolina dont have large black population is because even though slavery was legal there, you cant grow crops in the mountains
What in the World does history and crops have to do with the fact that Kentucky (as of 2009) is more (culturally and demographically) Midwestern than it is Southern?
It doesn't matter how it happened. The fact is it happened. You are trying too hard to "explain away" the facts I have brought to this debate.
Trust me my friend, there is a difference between NC appalachian towns and KY appalachian towns. Don't make the mistake of thinking the two are the same ever again. To do so would be an insult to many people (like myself) that KNOWS the difference all too well. I lived in Eastern KY at one point in my life. Let's NOT forget this, OK?
I love a good debate (and this is a great one) however I don't take very kindly to "apples" vs "baseball" comparisons like your Western NC towns vs Eastern KY towns. There are some similarities, but Western NC clearly has a more "southern" culture. Asheville's selection of an African American female mayor is proof of this southern difference. Sorry KY, but you guys ARE NOT southern (or as southern as y'all think you are). There is MUCH more to being southern than country accents, farming, and history. KY is NOT instep with the current south. Today, KY is more of a midwestern state than it is a Southern state. It is what it is.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 10-20-2009 at 11:31 PM..
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Gotta LOVE the South!!!
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