Is Kentucky the south or the midwest? (Russell, Harlan: things to do, tree)

[danielj72]

I am from the midwest (Michigan) and most of us up here would say Kentucky is southern. In the counties that border the Ohio river there may be some midwestern influence, but that does not make the state midwestern. The dialect, the local culture, the food is all southern. One easy way to tell if you are in the south is to go into a restauraunt and ask for an iced tea. If they ask sweet or unsweet you are in the upper south. If they just bring it out sweet without asking then your in the deep south. Kentucky falls into the first, it is upper south like Tn, Ark, and to some extent Missouri. Eighty years ago half of ky moved to Michigan for good jobs at GM (yea imagine that people moving TO mich lol), and those Kentucky folks brought southern influences to Michigan that still exist today. No one could convince me that Kentucky is a midwestern state.

[mdawg]

Urbancharlotte is trying to convince us that Kentucky is not the south because of one point. There are not enough black people here. He isn't even arguing 99% of the points we are using to justify Kentucky is culturally, historically, and geographically in the South. He completely ignores the info and stats we are giving him and keeps bringing up race, how the Ohio River is somehow a midwestern river (even though Britannica describes it as a major river in the SOUTHEAST) and that the Cincy/ Northern KY Airport is in Kentucky so that makes the whole state not southern. Urbancharlotte, please leave out race for one post and address all the points I have stated that make KY southern, as well as everyone else's. I took your list of what makes a state southern to you, and proved you wrong on almost every point.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by mdawg

Urbancharlotte is trying to convince us that Kentucky is not the south because of one point.

Lookahere "dawg", that "one point" is a MAJOR factor in what makes the south "southern" (and Kentucky lacks this "one point" when compared to the real south). It is what it is.

Geography is another factor. Thanks to geography, Kentucky has barely made the cut. Now, can we just agree to disagree so I can get back to posting in a real southern state please!!!

[mdawg]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

Lookahere "dawg", that "one point" is a MAJOR factor in what makes the south "southern" (and Kentucky lacks this "one point" when compared to the real south). It is what it is.

Geography is another factor. Thanks to geography, Kentucky has barely made the cut. Now, can we just agree to disagree so I can get back to posting in a real southern state please!!!

As far as I'm concerned, you are posting in a real southern state. You still haven't answered the points we have all brought up here other than black culture. And even the times people have brought up black culture in rural KY you have ignored it. Black culture is a major culture where you live, and in some other places, but certainly not everywhere in the south.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by mdawg

As far as I'm concerned, you are posting in a real southern state. You still haven't answered the points we have all brought up here other than black culture. And even the times people have brought up black culture in rural KY you have ignored it. Black culture is a major culture where you live, and in some other places, but certainly not everywhere in the south.

I haven't ignored any of the points brought up on this thread. I chose not to answer them simply because those points don't change the fact that the south as a whole is VERY different from KY. The biggest reason for this difference is KY's relatively smaller black population. You yourself asked the question why does a minority population affect so much of an area's culture? If you were familiar with the real south, you would know the answer to your own question. Like I said before to "slugger", post all of the maps you wish (knock yourself out). It still doesn't change the fact that KY is sitting on a black population of only 7.7%.

Compare this to Kentucky's southern neighbor Tennessee (16.8%).

Kentucky has a total population of 4,269,245.
Kentucky has a total of 328,732 blacks.
Kentucky QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Tennessee has a total population of 6,214,888.
Tennessee has a total of 1,044,101 blacks.
Tennessee QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Is there gonna be a cultural difference between KY and Tenn due to this factor? Yes!!!
Is it enough to make KY seem "less southern" to a person of color? Yes!!!
Is it enough to make KY seem "less southern" to a white person? Probably not.

Trust me, you don't want me to even bother comparing KY to GA, NC, and SC. Such a comparison (when it comes to percentage of blacks) would be laughable.

Again, this is why I did not respond to all of the maps being posted. It is because those maps were cherry picked in some desperate attempt to make KY seem more like the real south. I used to live in KY, therefore I know better. I could EASILY cherry pick maps that make KY look like the anomaly that it truly is (but I chose not to). Instead, I posted the straight facts from the US census. Every category is broken down in such a way that folks can analyze the data for themselves (without looking at some "half-truth" map).

Also, whenever you guys are looking at the percentage of whites, go with the "White persons not Hispanic" category instead of the "White persons" category. This way, you will get a true measure of your state's "real" white population. Many Hispanics are counted as being "white" in the census.
Here is how KY/Tenn compare when it comes to "White persons" vs "White persons not Hispanic".

Kentucky
all whites 89.9%
non-hispanic whites 87.8%

Tennessee
all whites 80.4%
non-hispanic whites 77.1%

Just for fun, let's see how this compares with GA, NC, and SC whites.

Georgia
all whites 65.4%
non-hispanic whites 58.1%

North Carolina
all whites 73.9%
non-hispanic whites 67.2%

South Carolina
all whites 68.7%
non-hispanic whites 65.2%

Now, let's take a look at Midwestern states like Indiana and Missouri shall we.

Indiana
all whites 88.0%
non-hispanic whites 83.2%

Missouri
all whites 85.0%
non-hispanic whites 82.1%

Let's look at Kentucky one more time folks.

Kentucky
all whites 89.9%
non-hispanic whites 87.8%

Well, would you look at that!!!! My goodness!!! It is amazing what one can find when we take the time to look at the US CENSUS DATA!!! Now do you guys finally see where I am coming from? KY (when I lived there) did not, did not, DID NOT feel like the South I grew up in. There are your numbers straight from the US Census that proves it. Now, if ANY of you guys still doubt what I am saying, consider this. Imagine if KY's non-hispanic white percentage dropped 20% (to match NC's) tomorrow. Are any of you willing to say that KY would NOT be a much different state (culturally) than what it is today? Can ANY of y'all make this claim?

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by mdawg

Urbancharlotte is trying to convince us that Kentucky is not the south because of one point. There are not enough black people here. He isn't even arguing 99% of the points we are using to justify Kentucky is culturally, historically, and geographically in the South. He completely ignores the info and stats we are giving him and keeps bringing up race, how the Ohio River is somehow a midwestern river (even though Britannica describes it as a major river in the SOUTHEAST) and that the Cincy/ Northern KY Airport is in Kentucky so that makes the whole state not southern. Urbancharlotte, please leave out race for one post and address all the points I have stated that make KY southern, as well as everyone else's. I took your list of what makes a state southern to you, and proved you wrong on almost every point.

Urbancharlotte just argues for the sake of arguing... he is not going to stop whether he believes what he says or not.

[SFLWR]

Originally Posted by mdawg

Urbancharlotte is trying to convince us that Kentucky is not the south because of one point. There are not enough black people here. He isn't even arguing 99% of the points we are using to justify Kentucky is culturally, historically, and geographically in the South. He completely ignores the info and stats we are giving him and keeps bringing up race, how the Ohio River is somehow a midwestern river (even though Britannica describes it as a major river in the SOUTHEAST) and that the Cincy/ Northern KY Airport is in Kentucky so that makes the whole state not southern. Urbancharlotte, please leave out race for one post and address all the points I have stated that make KY southern, as well as everyone else's. I took your list of what makes a state southern to you, and proved you wrong on almost every point.

Exactly my point from my last post too (that he did not answer ).

URBAN-The 4 short yrs. you lived here I'm sorry you didn't feel "at home" , having been born and raised here I can tell you that most folks here welcome everyone regardless of skin color and show southern hospitality. I have no doubt it was a factor due to your attitude and "maybe" even some prejudice on your part. Your here trying to convince folks here ,who "live" here and probably most even "born" here, that we ain't something that we know (and even folks who ain't from here ) WE ARE ? Your barkin up the wrong tree sweetie.


BTW- thanks to you out of state folks who are supporting us too....

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by SFLWR

Exactly my point from my last post too (that he did not answer ).

URBAN-The 4 short yrs. you lived here I'm sorry you didn't feel "at home" , having been born and raised here I can tell you that most folks here welcome everyone regardless of skin color and show southern hospitality. I have no doubt it was a factor due to your attitude and "maybe" even some prejudice on your part. Your here trying to convince folks here ,who "live" here and probably most even "born" here, that we ain't something that we know (and even folks who ain't from here ) WE ARE ? Your barkin up the wrong tree sweetie.


BTW- thanks to you out of state folks who are supporting us too....

Bless your little heart!!! You have NO CLUE why out of state folks are calling KY "southern" do you. Trust me, it is not in "support" of anything. There is a stigma attached to being "southern". You figure out why most Americans feel KY is "southern" LOL.

Anyways, there is a difference between the real south and Kentucky. I have posted the difference straight from the US census. No one can argue census facts (NO ONE). If you want to think having nearly 90% whites (compared to the 67% whites or less of NC, SC, and GA) makes Kentucky "no different" than real southern states go right ahead.

All I am saying is there would be "issues" if KY's white population dropped by 20 percentage points tomorrow and YOU know it. Stop fronting like everything would be all "swell" if KY became "less white" in just 24 hours.

FWIW, I am a black male with a white wife (from Kentucky). One of my step sons (13 year old white kid raised in KY) lives with me down in Charlotte. My mother and father in law (nicest people I EVER met) still live in KY and they accepted me like family.

From what I have noticed, KY's smaller black population has caused two things.

1 Due to there being less minorities, many whites in KY don't have as much experiences (good or bad) with blacks and other minorities.
2 Due to factor number 1, it is sometimes easier for a person of color to make a good first impression with a white person from KY (as opposed to a white person from say GA, SC, or NC).

These two factors (which I happen to like about KY) are more Midwestern than Southern.

Now, there is another side to having less knowledge of minorities. Some Kentucky whites tend to "stay clear" of minorities based on what they have heard (and not what they have experienced). Again, this is another Midwestern trait (because whites in the real south don't have to go by what they have heard; they are sure to have some first hand knowledge due to the demographics of their region).

My point is there is a good side (and bad side) to having demographics like KY so don't get it twisted. I think some of you are taking my observations as some sort of diss towards KY. If I REALLY hated KY, would I be married to a girl from KY (and helping her raise OUR son; her biological child not mine). If I were a racist, would I be in an interacial relationship such as the one I am in?

In some ways, having less diversity has caused KY to be less racist than the South (or better yet, caused KY to have less reasons to be racist as the south).

FWIW, my wife's accent is more "southern" than mine!!! I'll most certainly give KY the southern accents edge. Everything else is rather suspect though.

[SFLWR]

I have friends in CA, NY, IL, Ohio, other northern states , Canada and even 1 in Auss. and I can tell you "they" do not think of being "southern" as the way of being bad in any way. Actually, a couple of them want to move this way, so the "stigma" your talkin about is not always the case. The point was , the out of state folks on here know we are southern (regardless what they think of us , AND YOU ) .


Again, you are basing YOUR opinion by there being more or less blacks determines being "southern".And it doesn't.
btw-You still didn't answer my Q.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by SFLWR

Again, you are basing YOUR opinion by there being more or less blacks determines being "southern".And it doesn't.
btw-You still didn't answer my Q.

Um, I posted the stats for the non-hispanic whites too. I guess you missed that post. I'll quote it for you.

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

Kentucky
all whites 89.9%
non-hispanic whites 87.8%

Tennessee
all whites 80.4%
non-hispanic whites 77.1%

Just for fun, let's see how this compares with GA, NC, and SC whites.

Georgia
all whites 65.4%
non-hispanic whites 58.1%

North Carolina
all whites 73.9%
non-hispanic whites 67.2%

South Carolina
all whites 68.7%
non-hispanic whites 65.2%

Now, let's take a look at Midwestern states like Indiana and Missouri shall we.

Indiana
all whites 88.0%
non-hispanic whites 83.2%

Missouri
all whites 85.0%
non-hispanic whites 82.1%

Let's look at Kentucky one more time folks.

Kentucky
all whites 89.9%
non-hispanic whites 87.8%

Yup, Kentucky looks southern to me!!!