Is Kentucky the south or the midwest? (Louisville, Owensboro: cabins, bill)

[Louisvilleslugger]

[quote=urbancharlotte;11361266]

I haven't ignored any of the points brought up on this thread.

Except for the fact that Kentucky has a rural black population density most similar to Upland Tennessee!

I chose not to answer them simply because

It's an irrefutable if you acknowledge this fact then you'll either have to say that 3/4th's of Tennesse isn't "real South" or than Kentucky is Southern.

those points don't change the fact that the south as a whole is VERY different from KY. The biggest reason for this difference is KY's relatively smaller black population.

So dispite the fact that both of these maps basically cordinate with one another distinguishing the Upland South's (which includes 3/4th's of Tennessee) substantial rural black population from the Lowland South's bulky black population you'd rather let the census bureau tell you what's what. LOL So I mean if you want to remain ignorant and ignore Kentucky and Tennessee's Upland South bond based on technialities then go right ahead. We (Kentuckians) can also not stress over anything that you've just said simply because the census bureau labels Kentucky as the Southern!

If you were familiar with the real south, you would know the answer to your own question.

Once again you equate the Lowland South with "real South" when it's simply not the case. The Upland South is Southern too.

Like I said before to "slugger", post all of the maps you wish (knock yourself out). It still doesn't change the fact that KY is sitting on a black population of only 7.7%.

While they only comprise 11% of Texas's population so is Texas not Southern either?

Tennessee has a total population of 6,214,888.
Tennessee has a total of 1,044,101 blacks.
Tennessee QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

That's not what I asked for. Now let's make it intersting let's take away the 3 county (not even the MSA) memphis Metropolitan area and see what we're left with!

Shelby County (Memphis) Tenn. Black pop - 435,824

Tip County, Tenn. Black pop - 39,920

Fayette County, Tenn. Black pop - 10,355

total - 486,099

Which leaves the other 3/4th's of Tennessee with

Grand total - 558,002

compared to Kentucky's 328,732 blacks

Point is the Memphis region is the Lowland South while other 3/4th's of the state is Upland South just like Kentucky...Get it now!

Is there gonna be a cultural difference between KY and Tenn due to this factor?

NOPE!!! Not between Kentucky and over three quarters of the state which are of Upland Southern culture!

Is it enough to make KY seem "less southern" to a person of color? Yes!!!

Considering the fact that most people of color go to urban areas before a rural one kind of stomps this argument. Not mention the countless black Louisvillians who actually go to RURAL Kentucky for family reunions. Alot of my family stems from Columbia, Kentucky, whereas one of my friends just had family reunion in Shelbysville in July. My father's maternal side has family in steming from Southwestern Kentucky.....How often do you here of black people from Indiana or Illinois having family stemming from those states and strong family ties to rural areas of their states...NEVER!!!

Lol when I visit the Columbia/ Franklin Kentucky area my grandmother said don't go down there and mess with any females, because they're probably kin.

Is it enough to make KY seem "less southern" to a white person? Probably not

Exactly and white people are the majority in every Southern state.

Trust me, you don't want me to even bother comparing KY to GA, NC, and SC. Such a comparison (when it comes to percentage of blacks) would be laughable.

Why would you compare the black cultures of the Upland South to the Lowland South? It's laughable also to consider you comparing most Tennessee (all except Memphis) to those states.

Again, this is why I did not respond to all of the maps being posted. It is because those maps were cherry picked in some desperate attempt to make KY seem more like the real south.

LOL "cherry picked"! Sorry if the truth hurts that your perception of Kentucky being anything but Southern has been blown in your face by scholarly sources ranging from linguistics to religion to historical population figures, but that doesn't mean you can discard them as unreliable!

lol You say Desperate.. Desperate is how you've had to totally ignore my argument put forth labeling Kentucky and Tennessee's black culture quintessentially Upland Southern due to your fear that you'll have to either say Tennessee is not Southern or Kentucky is Southern.

I could EASILY cherry pick maps that make KY look like the anomaly that it truly is (but I chose not to).

Lol I'll challenge to that!

Instead, I posted the straight facts from the US census.

A straight fact from the U.S. Census Bureau is that Delaware and Maryland are Southern! Are you going to automatically label that as truth or read between the lines.

What you fail to realize is that culture is cannot be contained within invisibile state borders. As shown in the cultural map above the cultures and sub cultures are not comforming to particular to state lines but spread throughout regions of these states. Even if you look the Northern most tip of Lowland Southern culture stops are the borders of Kentucky, Missouri, and Illinois (little Egypt region).

So why is it so hard for you to recognize Upland Southern culture as Southern? Why is it so hard for you to recognize that Tennessee and Kentucky are the states the epitomizes Upland Southern?

Well, would you look at that!!!! My goodness!!! It is amazing what one can find when we take the time to look at the US CENSUS DATA!!!

Well why not compare Kentucky's white population to that of Ohio, Illinois, New York, or Pennessylvania? Kentucky is much white than those states does that make those states more Southern than Kentucky LOL!

LOL man you are trip to Mars!

[urbancharlotte]

Slugger, you're wasting your time. The title of this thread is "Is Kentucky the south or the midwest? "

Now look at the OP's statement.

Originally Posted by tazzy99

I'm a kentucky native, but someone recently asked me if Kentucky is a southern state or if it's the midwest. The weather channel called it the midwest. And I have seen it referenced as such.

I say it's a southern state. But others say it's not. I say it is because of the culture and the attitude is much more southern than midwestern.

What do you guys think?

I think the OP's statement says it best. Native Kentuckians think they are southern (and for good reasons in SOME cases). However, "others" (folks like myself that grew up in the real south) do not see KY as being "southern". Geography and Demographics is the main reason for this. Compare Tennessee to Kentucky all you want to. The fact is Tennessee is geographically positioned in the south in ways Kentucky will never be. Like I said, demographics and GEOGRAPHY gives Kentucky VERY strong Midwestern ties. This much is one of those non-debatable facts.

Since you like history so much, take a look at this link.

The border states of Kentucky and Missouri declared neutrality very early in the war. In Kentucky, the state gradually came to side with the north

Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It shows that Kentucky (historically) is more like Missouri than it is like the south when it comes to being a confederate state. Today, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Missouri still have very similar ethnic demographics and are located on the same latitude (I-64 corridor). If you wish to distance Kentucky from a Midwestern state like Missouri, go right ahead. However, history (and current demographics) prove otherwise.

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

Slugger, you're wasting your time. The title of this thread is "Is Kentucky the south or the midwest? "

Now look at the OP's statement.
I think the OP's statement says it best. Native Kentuckians think they are southern (and for good reasons in SOME cases). However, "others" (folks like myself that grew up in the real south) do not see KY as being "southern". Geography and Demographics is the main reason for this. Compare Tennessee to Kentucky all you want to. The fact is Tennessee is geographically positioned in the south in ways Kentucky will never be. Like I said, demographics and GEOGRAPHY gives Kentucky VERY strong Midwestern ties. This much is one of those non-debatable facts.

Since you like history so much, take a look at this link.

Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It shows that Kentucky (historically) is more like Missouri than it is like the south when it comes to being a confederate state. Today, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Missouri still have very similar ethnic demographics and are located on the same latitude (I-64 corridor). If you wish to distance Kentucky from a Midwestern state like Missouri, go right ahead. However, history (and current demographics) prove otherwise.

This is very true, especially for Louisville, which is much more like the Midwest than most southern towns. Much of southern and eastern KY, as well as west KY, is pretty southern though.

[Louisvilleslugger]

[quote=urbancharlotte;11448148]

Slugger, you're wasting your time.

Ummm last I checked over 99% of the post in this thread are in line with my opinion that Kentucky is a Southern state. LOL YOU are the one waisting YOUR time not a soul (even from other "real South" states) have stepped in this thread to back your opinion.

Now look at the OP's statement.
I think the OP's statement says it best.

Which is an opinion. While valued it's in the minority on this forum as is your opinion!

Native Kentuckians think they are southern (and for good reasons in SOME cases). However, "others" (folks like myself that grew up in the real south) do not see KY as being "southern".

I'd like to see a poll to back this opinion up, otherwise it stands merely as YOUR opinion! BTW there have been numerous threads on this topic ranging from what states constitute the South as well as a few threads revolving around Kentucky specifically.... AND guess what the vast majority of the opinions most of whom are Southerners view Kentucky as Southern!

Geography and Demographics

Which are besides the black population?

Compare Tennessee to Kentucky all you want to. The fact is Tennessee is geographically positioned in the south in ways Kentucky will never be.

Let's look at Geography



Appalachian-Cumberland—including the Southern Appalachian Mountains and the Cumberland Plateau and ecological sections to the north of these mountains. This includes the entire states of Kentucky and Tennessee as well as portions of Alabama, North Carolina, and Virginia.

LMAO You're dillusional dude. You can deny the commonalities all you want but the fact remains that most of Kentucky and Tennessee are comprised of Upland Southern culture. Which is backed by numerous Sociologist
including the reknown John Sheldon Reed who focuses on SOUTHERN CULTURE!

"In a UNC-CH study, people living in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia were considered Southerners.

Institute staff and students conducted the Southern Focus Poll in the fall and have been analyzing responses to questions on a variety of subjects since then. Interviewers spoke with random samples of 842 Southerners and 402 non-Southerners by telephone." John Sheldon Reed

Like I said, demographics and GEOGRAPHY gives Kentucky VERY strong Midwestern ties. This much is one of those non-debatable facts.

"non debatable facts" Which ARE WHAT?????

Gallup is out with a fascinating new ranking of the most and least religious states in the nation. The pollster asked 350,000 Americans a simple question: "Is religion an important part of your daily life?"

***********
By Dan Gilgoff, God & Country

Here are the ten states where the greatest proportions of people answered "yes" to that question:

85% Mississippi
82% Alabama
80% South Carolina
79% Tennessee
78% Louisiana
78% Arkansas
76% Georgia
76% North Carolina
75% Oklahoma
74% Kentucky
74% Texas

************

Southern Focus Poll Study

Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)

Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411)

West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses)

Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791)

West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16)

****************





AMERICAN ANCESTRY DOMINATES KENTUCKY, TENNESSEE, ARKANSAS, THE UPLAND SOUTH IN GENERAL

****************



THE NINE NATIONS OF NORTH AMERICA NAMES KENTUCKY AS DIXIE!

It shows that Kentucky (historically) is more like Missouri than it is like the south when it comes to being a confederate state. Today, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Missouri still have very similar ethnic demographics and are located on the same latitude (I-64 corridor).

Dude you are nothing more than wishful thinking at it's best. You've lost this debate horribly with little to no "real Southerner" coming to your aid. You've simply tried to duck and dodge what you didn't want to admit too and opted to repost what has already been refuted. You have an annoying habit of ignoring vital details just to mask a conclusion with a statistics which in the end proves nothing.

You've tried so desperately to relate Kentucky to any other state or regions of states other than Tennessee...The state which it shares the largest LAND border with. Through your opinonated justification of why Kentucky can't be "real South" you've ignored that a state that you label as "real South" shares those exact sub regional (Upland South) commonalities within over 3/4th's of it's borders. When these commonalities are pointed to you you simply ignored them, because you knew that admitting to them you'd have to label most of Tennessee as "non Southern". For goodness sakes just look at the Ancestry Map!

Number of lynchings





Slave population

If you wish to distance Kentucky from a Midwestern state like Missouri, go right ahead. However, history (and current demographics) prove otherwise.

Blah Blah Blah you proved nothing everything that you've put out has been thrown right back at you...NO "real southerner" CAME TO YOUR AID! NO ONE ON THIS THREAD BACKS YOUR OPINION...YOU LOSE!

[Louisvilleslugger]

Originally Posted by stx12499

This is very true, especially for Louisville, which is much more like the Midwest than most southern towns.

Not last time I checked!

[Ark90]

What the hell is the "Missouri Apex"? It sounds like some kind of evil conspiracy ha-ha.

[solytaire]

[quote=Louisvilleslugger;11479139]

Originally Posted by urbancharlotte

Ummm last I checked over 99% of the post in this thread are in line with my opinion that Kentucky is a Southern state. LOL YOU are the one waisting YOUR time not a soul (even from other "real South" states) have stepped in this thread to back your opinion.



Which is an opinion. While valued it's in the minority on this forum as is your opinion!



I'd like to see a poll to back this opinion up, otherwise it stands merely as YOUR opinion! BTW there have been numerous threads on this topic ranging from what states constitute the South as well as a few threads revolving around Kentucky specifically.... AND guess what the vast majority of the opinions most of whom are Southerners view Kentucky as Southern!



Which are besides the black population?



Let's look at Geography



Appalachian-Cumberland—including the Southern Appalachian Mountains and the Cumberland Plateau and ecological sections to the north of these mountains. This includes the entire states of Kentucky and Tennessee as well as portions of Alabama, North Carolina, and Virginia.

LMAO You're dillusional dude. You can deny the commonalities all you want but the fact remains that most of Kentucky and Tennessee are comprised of Upland Southern culture. Which is backed by numerous Sociologist
including the reknown John Sheldon Reed who focuses on SOUTHERN CULTURE!

"In a UNC-CH study, people living in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia were considered Southerners.

Institute staff and students conducted the Southern Focus Poll in the fall and have been analyzing responses to questions on a variety of subjects since then. Interviewers spoke with random samples of 842 Southerners and 402 non-Southerners by telephone." John Sheldon Reed



"non debatable facts" Which ARE WHAT?????

Gallup is out with a fascinating new ranking of the most and least religious states in the nation. The pollster asked 350,000 Americans a simple question: "Is religion an important part of your daily life?"

***********
By Dan Gilgoff, God & Country

Here are the ten states where the greatest proportions of people answered "yes" to that question:

85% Mississippi
82% Alabama
80% South Carolina
79% Tennessee
78% Louisiana
78% Arkansas
76% Georgia
76% North Carolina
75% Oklahoma
74% Kentucky
74% Texas

************

Southern Focus Poll Study

Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)

Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411)

West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses)

Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791)

West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16)

****************





AMERICAN ANCESTRY DOMINATES KENTUCKY, TENNESSEE, ARKANSAS, THE UPLAND SOUTH IN GENERAL

****************



THE NINE NATIONS OF NORTH AMERICA NAMES KENTUCKY AS DIXIE!



Dude you are nothing more than wishful thinking at it's best. You've lost this debate horribly with little to no "real Southerner" coming to your aid. You've simply tried to duck and dodge what you didn't want to admit too and opted to repost what has already been refuted. You have an annoying habit of ignoring vital details just to mask a conclusion with a statistics which in the end proves nothing.

You've tried so desperately to relate Kentucky to any other state or regions of states other than Tennessee...The state which it shares the largest LAND border with. Through your opinonated justification of why Kentucky can't be "real South" you've ignored that a state that you label as "real South" shares those exact sub regional (Upland South) commonalities within over 3/4th's of it's borders. When these commonalities are pointed to you you simply ignored them, because you knew that admitting to them you'd have to label most of Tennessee as "non Southern". For goodness sakes just look at the Ancestry Map!

Number of lynchings





Slave population











Blah Blah Blah you proved nothing everything that you've put out has been thrown right back at you...NO "real southerner" CAME TO YOUR AID! NO ONE ON THIS THREAD BACKS YOUR OPINION...YOU LOSE!

B- B- But -But Kentucky has a city that sits on the Ohio River!!..And it doesnt have any blacks with big rims on their cars! -- Therefore your whole post is fallacy!!

j/k

[Akhenaton06]

Obviously Kentucky isn't a Deep South state, but I've always considered it Southern. Contrary to popular opinion, the South is not a monolithic region, so it would be a mistake to say that because the geography/demographics/certain cultural characteristics of Kentucky don't mirror those of Georgia that Kentucky isn't Southern. Take that for what it's worth from an "outsider."

[Louisvilleslugger]

[quote=solytaire;11479561]

Originally Posted by Louisvilleslugger

B- B- But -But Kentucky has a city that sits on the Ohio River!!..And it doesnt have any blacks with big rims on their cars! -- Therefore your whole post is fallacy!!

j/k

Lol

[JefferyT]

This is very true, especially for Louisville, which is much more like the Midwest than most southern towns.

Not last time I checked!

...old styx has been going on for years now (on different forums and under different handles) on how Midwestern Louisville is. Pay him no mind.