I hope Paducah LOSES the quilt show... (Louisville, California: condos, how much)

[kentuckydad95]

I would like to know just who in their right mind would be willing to live downtown in a condo in Paducah? Let's see...no gas stations, no grocery stores, you have to drive through the slums to get to the nearest hospital. Will there be covered parking or do you have to risk parking your car on the street all night? Will the cost be as out the wazoo as the present condos for sale downtown? I mean $350,000 for a condo (332 N 7th Street Unit 101)??? That place costs $134.63 per square foot. Do you know what kind of home you could build (even in this economy) for that price per square foot? How about the lowertown courtyard homes? 1,553-2,085 sq ft homes priced from $329K-$350k. Now you tell me where exactly people in this area are going to afford those condos? The people who can afford it already live in nice houses with a big yard and actually live close to gas, grocery stores and the such. In fact, their houses probably cost less then these condo's. Remember...Paducah has 22% of their population living below the poverty level. I guess I am asking, why build more overpriced condo's when they aren't selling what they have? I could see condo's being built in cities who's population is actually going up, but not in a city in population decline. Someone else said this on here, but Paducah has champagne tastes with a beer budget. Paducah will NEVER be the big metropolis they want it to be.

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

The quilt show has very little to do with the solvency of hotels in the Paducah area. It's 5 days of capacity, but that's it. The other 360 days of the year are infinitely more important to the success of any of the hotels in Paducah. Just a couple years ago the Executive Inn was at 40-50% capacity (that has reportedly dropped to 10%). That's around 200 rooms per night before there was an influx of barge industry headquarters in the downtown area, in a largely isolated and antiquated hotel. The new hotel downtown will be many times nicer and has 150 rooms plus condos and a restaurant. The demand that filled the Big E to 40% a night did not disappear; in fact, it has most likely increased since the barge industry is booming now. Throw in regular events at the nearby Carson Center, and it's easy to see why a new 150-room luxury hotel will succeed.

Maybe you can educate me. How does the barge industry relate to luxury hotel occupancy?

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by kentuckydad95

I would like to know just who in their right mind would be willing to live downtown in a condo in Paducah? Let's see...no gas stations, no grocery stores, you have to drive through the slums to get to the nearest hospital. Will there be covered parking or do you have to risk parking your car on the street all night? Will the cost be as out the wazoo as the present condos for sale downtown? I mean $350,000 for a condo (332 N 7th Street Unit 101)??? That place costs $134.63 per square foot. Do you know what kind of home you could build (even in this economy) for that price per square foot? How about the lowertown courtyard homes? 1,553-2,085 sq ft homes priced from $329K-$350k. Now you tell me where exactly people in this area are going to afford those condos? The people who can afford it already live in nice houses with a big yard and actually live close to gas, grocery stores and the such. In fact, their houses probably cost less then these condo's. Remember...Paducah has 22% of their population living below the poverty level. I guess I am asking, why build more overpriced condo's when they aren't selling what they have? I could see condo's being built in cities who's population is actually going up, but not in a city in population decline. Someone else said this on here, but Paducah has champagne tastes with a beer budget. Paducah will NEVER be the big metropolis they want it to be.

I agree with you.

It seems apparant that none of the "movers and shakers" in Paducah, have even a rudimentary knowledge of demographics. I think they get on the Paxton company plane, travel to various "real" cities, say "look at that, that's what we need in Paducah!" The reason downtown luxury hotels work, is because you have a city that's bustling with conventions, ballgames, and cultural events 365 days a year. Paducah doesn't have that, and short of growth to a metro area of at least 500,000 population it never will.

With the exception of a niche event like the quilt show, the other cultural activities in Paducah are unexceptional, and patronized by people living within a 50 mile radius. Outside that 50 mile ring, the same activities (and usually of a higher quality) can be had by driving to Nashville or St. Louis. People living within 50 miles of Paducah are not going to spend the night in a hotel, and even if they did, it's not likely to be a luxury one.

Downtown condos work well in large congested cities. Where space for development is at a premium, and traffic to get into or out of the city, makes condo living convenient. Paducah has none of these qualities.

[kentuckydad95]

Originally Posted by BLS2753

I agree with you.

It seems apparant that none of the "movers and shakers" in Paducah, have even a rudimentary knowledge of demographics. I think they get on the Paxton company plane, travel to various "real" cities, say "look at that, that's what we need in Paducah!" The reason downtown luxury hotels work, is because you have a city that's bustling with conventions, ballgames, and cultural events 365 days a year. Paducah doesn't have that, and short of growth to a metro area of at least 500,000 population it never will.

With the exception of a niche event like the quilt show, the other cultural activities in Paducah are unexceptional, and patronized by people living within a 50 mile radius. Outside that 50 mile ring, the same activities (and usually of a higher quality) can be had by driving to Nashville or St. Louis. People living within 50 miles of Paducah are not going to spend the night in a hotel, and even if they did, it's not likely to be a luxury one.

Downtown condos work well in large congested cities. Where space for development is at a premium, and traffic to get into or out of the city, makes condo living convenient. Paducah has none of these qualities.

I knew we could agree on something!!!

[Hey_Hey]

Originally Posted by BLS2753

Maybe you can educate me. How does the barge industry relate to luxury hotel occupancy?

Sure. There are 4 or 5 barge companies with headquarters in Paducah, and two of those (when construction is completed) are within walking distance of the new hotel. These companies each have hundreds or thousands of employees and millions of dollars in revenue. Any business that large will attract numerous people to the area for business. Accountants, lawyers, suppliers, customers, etc will all be in Paducah regularly. There's also the Seaman's Church training facility that attracts tugboat captains from around the country to come and train in downtown Paducah.

Hyatt will also attract those people who are a member of Hyatt family's reward club staying in the area for whatever reason (casino, family, business, entertainment, etc). There is no other Hyatt in the area, and as such it should capture all of this demographic.

I would also add that while this is luxurious for the Paducah market, it wouldn't be a "luxury" hotel if it were in Chicago or Nashville. I suspect room rates will be in the $75-120 range depending on what's going on in and around the area.

[Hey_Hey]

Originally Posted by kentuckydad95

I would like to know just who in their right mind would be willing to live downtown in a condo in Paducah? Let's see...no gas stations, no grocery stores, you have to drive through the slums to get to the nearest hospital. Will there be covered parking or do you have to risk parking your car on the street all night? Will the cost be as out the wazoo as the present condos for sale downtown? I mean $350,000 for a condo (332 N 7th Street Unit 101)??? That place costs $134.63 per square foot. Do you know what kind of home you could build (even in this economy) for that price per square foot? How about the lowertown courtyard homes? 1,553-2,085 sq ft homes priced from $329K-$350k. Now you tell me where exactly people in this area are going to afford those condos? The people who can afford it already live in nice houses with a big yard and actually live close to gas, grocery stores and the such. In fact, their houses probably cost less then these condo's. Remember...Paducah has 22% of their population living below the poverty level. I guess I am asking, why build more overpriced condo's when they aren't selling what they have? I could see condo's being built in cities who's population is actually going up, but not in a city in population decline. Someone else said this on here, but Paducah has champagne tastes with a beer budget. Paducah will NEVER be the big metropolis they want it to be.

The thing about real estate is that a small minority of a population can maintain a niche market. I currently live in a much, much larger city than Paducah and people say the exact same thing about downtown condos as you are saying. If you read online comments from people in Nashville you'll hear the same thing as well. That's because a small percentage of people are actually interested in owning a condo downtown for the prices they bring. That doesn't mean they are overpriced for the market, however. In fact, the market determines what fair value is for any property. If there wasn't demand in Paducah for downtown condo living then the prices would be lower. It's very hard to legitimately argue with market economics and price levels of real estate.

I found it interesting that the property you described is similar to countless areas in Kentucky that are miles away from any city. If people demanded living within 5 minutes of grocery stores, shopping, and hospitals then you could just wipe out large swaths of Graves, Marshall, and McCracken Counties. And some of these properties (for example, those in Marshall County along Kentucky Lake) demand outrageous prices. Does that mean those properties are worth what they're bringing?

All condos (not just downtown) have been surging across the country in the last 10 years because of the minimal amount of upkeep required. In fact, if you talk to most any real estate developer they'll tell you the smaller the yard, the better. Condos are the pinnacle of low-upkeep properties.

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

The thing about real estate is that a small minority of a population can maintain a niche market. I currently live in a much, much larger city than Paducah and people say the exact same thing about downtown condos as you are saying. If you read online comments from people in Nashville you'll hear the same thing as well. That's because a small percentage of people are actually interested in owning a condo downtown for the prices they bring. That doesn't mean they are overpriced for the market, however. In fact, the market determines what fair value is for any property. If there wasn't demand in Paducah for downtown condo living then the prices would be lower. It's very hard to legitimately argue with market economics and price levels of real estate.

I found it interesting that the property you described is similar to countless areas in Kentucky that are miles away from any city. If people demanded living within 5 minutes of grocery stores, shopping, and hospitals then you could just wipe out large swaths of Graves, Marshall, and McCracken Counties. And some of these properties (for example, those in Marshall County along Kentucky Lake) demand outrageous prices. Does that mean those properties are worth what they're bringing?

All condos (not just downtown) have been surging across the country in the last 10 years because of the minimal amount of upkeep required. In fact, if you talk to most any real estate developer they'll tell you the smaller the yard, the better. Condos are the pinnacle of low-upkeep properties.

You give a good perspective on the condos. I haven't looked at it that way, but I suppose as long as the number of them is limited, there will be sufficient buyers. I just don't know anyone in that demographic. It would have to be someone with alot of money, with a strong attachment to downtown Paducah. I can't speak for Nashville, but I know in St. Louis that similar lofts are going for roughly the price as the ones in Paducah. Some of them are being rented for $700 a month. I know given the choice, I would choose to live in a real city.

Paducah and high net-worth individuals are generally mutually exclusive. When you get beyond the doctors at the 2 hospitals, and a few "old money" families, there's not much there. Everyone one else is making 7-15 bucks an hour or is on government assistance. There's Payday Loan Stores on every other corner for a reason.

[kentuckydad95]

It just goes back to Paducah wanting to be something they're not. Is Nashville and their metro area losing population? What about St Louis? Hell, Paducah doesn't even have a metro area. They never will either. Forget it...I hope you and/or your friends make a bundle off of those Paducah condo's. Talk about a hail mary!!!

[EclecticEars]

I wish I could be more optimistic about Paducah, b/c under the grit and past the slums there's a certain historic, river town charm that is uniquely Paducah's. I don't quite know how to explain it. Of course, a loss of 6,000 people over 30 years is substantial considering the city at its peak had nearly 32,000 residents, but it sure is sprawled out so that it's size-wise almost like Evansville.

With run-down neighborhoods, a lack of urban beautification (which could be a result of the diminishing tax base and consequently diminishing tax dollars,) and bad public schools, no wonder most "Paducahans" live outside the city limits in McCracken County. Even now, McCracken Co. has started to lose population to Graves and Marshall Cos.

It's a shame, b/c Paducah was a gem through the 1980s. I have to disagree with Kentuckydad on his assessment of the crime rate, though; Paducah is not really an unsafe city, even for its size and comparatively speaking to other, larger cities, but it has a few areas that are sketchy.

[sweetana3]

I again returned for the quilt show and as usual was so impressed with the quality of Paducah's town and the residents. I have rarely met such friendly townspeople. No one we saw or interacted with was less than pleasant and friendly.

I am amazed at the renaissance of the downtown and personaly would live in one of those condos since I am close to being retired. Loved the park and City Hall area. Our trolley driver gave us a narrated tour along the whole trip. Your mall seems stable and was an enjoyable time.

I have never liked the Executive Inn but when you are a tired vendor, access is all and they will put up with a lot. Has it ever been remodelled?