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Old 07-08-2008, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Near L.A.
4,114 posts, read 8,898,310 times
Reputation: 3297

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman1 View Post
I agree...120 counties is a joke. 120 county clerks...etc. It is a huge waste of money. Plus a side bennefit would be when people always say they are from ......county I might actually have a clue where that is if there are only ten or eleven of them. As it is now unless it is Jefferson, Kenton, Boone, Campbell, Fayette or Daviess county then I have no idea where you are from. Why can't people just say I am from harlan or wherever. That includes where I'm from. Most people from N. Ky don't say they are from ....county but they say i'm from northern kentucky. That narrows it down a bit but still...name your city...then name the closest big one and that will due...ha. When I ask you where you are from and you say Clinton county I have no clue where that is (I apologize for not having them memorized). Just a side benefit to a reduction. Would you like some sweet tea?
120 counties with an average square mileage of 337.03 equates to a lot unnecessary county bureaucracy and rural dependence on the state that could be reduced by the consolidation of counties.

West Virginia, albeit smaller, only has 55 counties. That means an average square mileage of 440.55. The average WV county is essentially 1/3 larger than the average KY county.

If Kentucky were to increase its average county size to that of WV, it would have to consolidate from 120 to 92 counties.

County clerks, while elected by county residents, are paid by the State Treasurer's Office. If we eliminate 28 county clerks at the average pay of, say, $50,000/yr., that is $1.4 million less that we the taxpayers are paying annually. Think of the reduction in state fees sent to assist District, Circuit, and Family Courts. Think of the reduction in staff members to zero at 28 no-longer-existent courthouses. Imagine fewer transportation appropriations sent to the rural-most counties based on the "rule of fifths" in the Kentucky Revised Statutes. This would bolster the development of much-needed new bridges in Louisville and Northern Kentucky. I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg here.

I'd actually love to see consolidation down to as low as 80 counties myself. i.e.: (1) Jefferson, Oldham, and Bullitt could be consolidated, keeping Louisville Metro w/in its current boundaries and not expanding the "city limits" into the two newly-consolidated counties. (2) Fayette, Scott, and Jessamine, keeping the same concept with Lexington Metro as with Louisville Metro. (3) Anderson, Franklin, and Woodford, using Frankfort as the county seat; all three of those counties are very small.

Will this ever happen? Don't count on it. But it is nice to dream!
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,478,331 times
Reputation: 2112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcm1986 View Post
County clerks, while elected by county residents, are paid by the State Treasurer's Office. Think of the reduction in state fees sent to assist District, Circuit, and Family Courts. Think of the reduction in staff members to zero at 28 no-longer-existent courthouses. Imagine fewer transportation appropriations sent to the rural-most counties based on the "rule of fifths" in the Kentucky Revised Statutes. This would bolster the development of much-needed new bridges in Louisville and Northern Kentucky. I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg here.

I'd actually love to see consolidation down to as low as 80 counties myself. i.e.: (1) Jefferson, Oldham, and Bullitt could be consolidated, keeping Louisville Metro w/in its current boundaries and not expanding the "city limits" into the two newly-consolidated counties. (2) Fayette, Scott, and Jessamine, keeping the same concept with Lexington Metro as with Louisville Metro. (3) Anderson, Franklin, and Woodford, using Frankfort as the county seat; all three of those counties are very small.

Will this ever happen? Don't count on it. But it is nice to dream!
First of all, the county clerk is not paid by the state anything. They are paid a portion of the fees they collect, ie. deeds, mortgages, marriage licenses, etc.

Secondly, the smaller counties share criminal judges, jails, and prosecuters (Commonwealth's Attorneys). County Attorneys can and do prosecute misdemeanors, but generally they attend to county legal matters such as representing the fiscal courts.

Third, the needs of Jefferson, Fayette, McCracken, Kenton, Campbell Counties, etc. are different than the counties they adjoin. For example, I used to think my home county, McLean should be rejoined to Daviess north of the Green River and Muhlenberg south of the river. I have since seen that people would effectively become political orphans, err.. taxation without representation.... a key element leading to our nation's independence.

Mayor Jerry Abramson and the Louisville Metro would just love to treat Oldham, Spencer, Shelby, Bullitt, and Hardin Counties like a corporate raider treats a cash cow.
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Old 07-09-2008, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
2,927 posts, read 7,392,332 times
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Why do we need less counties for?? Not sure why it matters if we have 104, 88 or 120. Many people have a lot of pride in their county, so if they consolidated it wouldn't go over very well. Of course this will never happen however.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Dayton, OH
1,225 posts, read 3,878,053 times
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I think one reason is that KY does not have civil townships, so countys became smaller.
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:30 PM
 
145 posts, read 458,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InLondon View Post
Why do we need less counties for?? Not sure why it matters if we have 104, 88 or 120. Many people have a lot of pride in their county, so if they consolidated it wouldn't go over very well. Of course this will never happen however.

It matters if we have 104 counties compared to 88 or 120 because the more counties that exist, the more expenses the state has in order to fill county jobs, county schools, county police, county infrastructure...get the point. So with 120 counties we have a significantly higer expense than need be. There is really no good reason other than that's how it has always been for having 120 seperate counties in a state this size. People fear the no representation thing but other states seem to get by just fine why would we not fair so well? I am sure a lot of people do have pride in their county but where I am from people say what city they are from not what county. It is that or i'm from northen kentucky. I have never heard someone from that answer I'm from Boone, Kenton, etc. Not that that means a lot but my point is that some people care more about what county they are from than others. Personally I am more concerned about my city or town than what county that resides in. But to each their own. Would you like some sweet tea?
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:10 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,583 posts, read 20,459,831 times
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What should be done is consolidating services without removing the names or borders of the counties, or their schools. Maybe jails, clerk's offices, and animal shelters that serve several counties instead of one.
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,478,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
What should be done is consolidating services without removing the names or borders of the counties, or their schools. Maybe jails, clerk's offices, and animal shelters that serve several counties instead of one.
If you will note in a previous reply on this thread, your exact point has been occuring in Kentucky for several decades.

In the mid-1960's, Kentucky tried to do an end run around the large number of counties by setting up Area Development Districts (ADD). The idea was to deminish the number of counties, but the idea flopped. We still have ADD's, but the original plan to merge counties just didn't work.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:13 AM
 
149 posts, read 688,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
What should be done is consolidating services without removing the names or borders of the counties, or their schools. Maybe jails, clerk's offices, and animal shelters that serve several counties instead of one.
Yep like Tom said, this has been going on for decades. For example, there's actually counties that have no jails aside from police holding tanks and that dont have fire house either, being instaed that when fires occur everybody with bucket and shovel pitches in. And with respect to social services, care for the elderly etc y'all gonna find it's strictly handled from within on neighbor-to-neighbor basis pretty much across the board.

Strikes me that extreme localization of each county lookin after it's own in co-operation among neighbors is exactly the cornerstone of what keeps this commonwealth intact.

Understandably now, Louvillians pulled smart play and set an amazing precedent outa carving Louisville Metro area formed with neighboring county blessings. Meanwhile the combined 7 Counties System for administering social services kinda gits more drawn into serving inner city stuff than serving rural areas, or dont it?

Thus strikes me the real drag on state's economy dont come from sparsely populated rural counties at all. Y'all try sellin this bill of goods regarding "combining" counties together down at the Barrens, Hart and Metcalfe - they'll wonder what yer talkin about. Inflict this kinda nonsense on them and you'll profane co-operative measures established happily in spirit of fellowship already in place and firmly established over the past near century.

Haint the rest of Kentucky the same? Take Floyd, Knott and Harlan for example - they been spaekin together and understand each other's needs well enough to probly not require any kinda overthrow of what they got in place.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
 
145 posts, read 458,225 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by KYcoyote View Post
Yep like Tom said, this has been going on for decades. For example, there's actually counties that have no jails aside from police holding tanks and that dont have fire house either, being instaed that when fires occur everybody with bucket and shovel pitches in. And with respect to social services, care for the elderly etc y'all gonna find it's strictly handled from within on neighbor-to-neighbor basis pretty much across the board.

Strikes me that extreme localization of each county lookin after it's own in co-operation among neighbors is exactly the cornerstone of what keeps this commonwealth intact.

Understandably now, Louvillians pulled smart play and set an amazing precedent outa carving Louisville Metro area formed with neighboring county blessings. Meanwhile the combined 7 Counties System for administering social services kinda gits more drawn into serving inner city stuff than serving rural areas, or dont it?

Thus strikes me the real drag on state's economy dont come from sparsely populated rural counties at all. Y'all try sellin this bill of goods regarding "combining" counties together down at the Barrens, Hart and Metcalfe - they'll wonder what yer talkin about. Inflict this kinda nonsense on them and you'll profane co-operative measures established happily in spirit of fellowship already in place and firmly established over the past near century.

Haint the rest of Kentucky the same? Take Floyd, Knott and Harlan for example - they been spaekin together and understand each other's needs well enough to probly not require any kinda overthrow of what they got in place.

I don't know how you can say that having more counties isn't more expensive than if we had a fewer amount. That makes no sence...the numbers prove that for every county certain things go along with them and they require money so the more counties the more money it costs. I don't think people would wonder what we are talking about at all...it is common sense. How is it we have 120 counties when florida has 67 and California has 58? With all the talk about a tight budget in the state thats an easy way to reduce some cost. You made my point as well...since Floyd, Knott, and Harlan speak together as you say and understand one another's needs well enough then why not just make it one county because as you say they already know what the needs are of one another, their wouldn't be the representation without taxation issue you mentioned before. Change isn't always a bad thing. Wouldy you like some sweet tea?
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Harlan, Kentucky
200 posts, read 714,329 times
Reputation: 125
well just speaking off the top of my head... but harlan floyd and knott county are not even bordering counties...
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