the ILLEGAL debate rages on!! (Louisville, California: sale, income, bus)

[KerryB]

Originally Posted by standards?

everyone forgets unless youre a full blooded american indian youre also of an immigrant.this country is only a little over 2oo yrs old.

Yeah, people seem to forget that little tidbit of info. Usually the rednecks that dont know any better or even know their family history. Most of us are all just a couple generations from being immigrants ourselves.

Ignorant Redneck: "Hey you damn immigrants. Get outta MY country!"

American Indian:

[Lildevited]

Originally Posted by wildcatt86

Ok, so everyone is debating the subject of illegal immigrants. My fellow kentuckians seem very ignorant on the topic. Point is that its illegal!! Case closed!! I lived in texas for 3 years and watched illegals march the streets for their rights and wave the mexican glag around, throwing things at buildings. So, sit back and don't worry about it, but in 20 years when they are the majority of the US you'll all wish you hadn't been so dumb.

Waving the Mexican glag around?
Grow up, ignorance is overpowering you.

Most illegals that come into this country usually come to work and support their families. How many times has a Mexican shot you or robbed you?
Didn't think so.

This is a changing world, if you don't illegals, move to Mississippi.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by wildcatt86

To the one who thinls that more are here legally...get real man...open your eyes. No they are not here illegally and I never indicated that they were. 3/4 of them started off illegal and may be legal now but is that any better really? See, when I was in ft. Worth tx my 6 month old daughter was sick,running a fever of 105. We took her to the emergency to be told, "sorry sir, it will be about a 6 hour wait" I look around to see nothing but illegals(when they speak only spanish they are illegal,its a requirement to know english if they went the legal route) We were the only white people in the entire place and there wasn't a place to sit. Go through that and come back to this blog and tell me what you think!!!

Oh you don't even know.... and this is how it starts! We have 1/6 of all the people from Mexico living here already and there are more of them living here Illegally than legally. Why do we let more Mexicans in legally than any other Country? What rates them above the poor in Asia and Africa looking for a better life?

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Lildevited

Waving the Mexican glag around?
Grow up, ignorance is overpowering you.

Most illegals that come into this country usually come to work and support their families. How many times has a Mexican shot you or robbed you?
Didn't think so.

This is a changing world, if you don't illegals, move to Mississippi.

I've had two houses, and three cars broke into by Illegals. The Illegals breaking into cars were caught. The Illegals that robbed one of our houses were caught the other was a just fired lawn crew that cleaned us out the next day after they were fired by the owner of the apartments they we were staying in. They didn't catch them but they left the clothes they were wearing in our bedrooms where they swapped out clothes.

That leaves one all warm and fuzzy knowing some Illegal is wearing your stuff.

Just do nothing and you will have CA style Illegals in no time.

[marmac]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Oh you don't even know.... and this is how it starts! We have 1/6 of all the people from Mexico living here already and there are more of them living here Illegally than legally. Why do we let more Mexicans in legally than any other Country? What rates them above the poor in Asia and Africa looking for a better life?

" What rates them above the poor in Asia and Africa looking for a better life ?"

Good question !

( and the answer is nothing )

We don't take in vast number of immigrants from other countries unless they are in serious physical danger by the govt of their country.

Not the case with Mexicans.

[Off Topic]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

I've had two houses, and three cars broke into by Illegals.

Personal anecdotes aside, almost every study I've seen says that illegal immigrants are actually less likely to commit a crime than legal immigrants or natural citizens. Which makes perfect sense -- if you want to stay in this country, you don't do anything to draw attention to yourself.

I have little hope you will actually read what I am about to post since it does not already fit into your political philosophy, but if anyone is interested in facts and not scare stories, here they are:

Immigrant crime, and widespread fear of it, has had a long history in this country…Researchers and observers…note that the majority of immigrants are law-abiding. Often, they go further, adding that immigrants commit fewer crimes than the native-born. A 1997 paper jointly sponsored by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Urban Institute typifies this view:

"Few stereotypes of immigrants are as enduring, or have been proven so categorically false over literally decades of research, as the notion that immigrants are disproportionately likely to engage in criminal activity. (If anything) immigrants are disproportionately unlikely to be criminal. "

It might surprise many just how many decades back this view dates. In 1901…the Industrial Commission, issued a "Special Report on General Statistics of Immigration and the Foreign-Born," observing that foreign-born whites were less oriented toward crime than native whites. A decade later, in 1911…the Immigration Commission, released its own study. "No satisfactory evidence," the report said, "has yet been produced to show that immigration has resulted in an increase in crime disproportionate to the increase in adult population…(T)he National Commission on Law Observance and Enforcement, collected data on crime and arrest statistics in 52 cities. The results, the commission's 1931 report concluded, "seem to disagree radically with the popular belief that a high percentage [of crime] may be ascribed to the 'alien.'

In the 1980s and 1990s researchers have concluded, or at least have lent support to the conclusion, that immigrants commit proportionately no more than and possibly even fewer crimes than native-born citizens. The General Accounting Office, analyzing FBI records, found that foreign-born individuals accounted for about 19 percent of the total arrests in 1985 in six selected major cities. The foreign-born represented 19.6 percent of the aggregate population. While "foreign-born" can mean refer to citizens as well as aliens, the study makes an implicit case that immigrant crime is in line with the rest of the country.

John Hagan of the University of Toronto and Alberto Palloni of the University of Wisconsin also found a weak link between immigration and crime. Examining criminal justice data in two U.S. border cities, El Paso and San Diego, Hagan and Palloni argued immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates because of biases in processes that lead from pre-trial detention to sentencing. The criminal justice system views immigrants as potential "flight risks," they noted, and thus detains many suspects who otherwise (as citizens) would not be detained. The authors concluded that incarceration rates, depending on the national origin of the criminal, exaggerate by anywhere from three to seven times the crime rates of immigrants relative to citizens.

INS data, recently made available at the request of the House and Senate Appropriations subcommittees that fund the agency's budget, show a lower recidivism rate for immigrants. Of the 35,318 criminal aliens INS released from custody (but not did not deport) during October 1994 and May 1999 there were 11,605 who went on to commit new crimes. This recidivism (repeat offender) rate of 37 percent was well below the 66 percent figure for the U.S. criminal population for the comparable period.

Center for Immigration Studies

See also:

WASHINGTON — Immigrants — both legal and illegal — do not raise the rate of crime in the United States, according to a study released Monday.
In every ethnic group, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are less educated, said the study by the Immigration Policy Center, an immigrant-advocacy group in Washington. This holds especially true for Mexicans, Salvadorans and Guatemalans, who make up the bulk of the illegal population.

"The misperception that immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, are responsible for higher crime rates is deeply rooted in American public opinion and is sustained by media anecdotes and popular myth," said Ruben G. Rumbaut, a sociology professor at the University of California-Irvine. "This perception is not supported empirically. In fact, it is refuted by the preponderance of scientific evidence."

The incarceration rate of U.S.- born men 18 to 39 years old in 2000 was 3.5 percent — five times higher than the incarceration rate of their immigrant counterparts, the study found.

The report — which analyzed data from the U.S. Census Bureau, police records and other sources — also shows that a large increase in illegal immigrants has not resulted in a rise in crime. Since 1994, violent crime in the United States has declined 34 percent, and property crime has fallen 26 percent. At the same time, the illegal immigrant population has doubled to around 12 million.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/171109

And see also:
Immigration: No Correlation With Crime
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...717575,00.html

Ironically, most studies show they are the victims of more crime than they are the perpetrators. Mostly since they are easy targets who will not go to the police.

And here irony for you: A study by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that, "cities with large immigrant populations showed larger reductions in property and violent crime than cities without large immigrant populations! Reductions in crime!

So the facts just do not back up your argument. Again, from my point of view, your strongest arguments are bigotry and fear. If those were my strongest arguments, I might do some serious re-thinking about my opinion.

[nokygirl]

Originally Posted by Off Topic

Personal anecdotes aside, almost every study I've seen says that illegal immigrants are actually less likely to commit a crime than legal immigrants or natural citizens. Which makes perfect sense -- if you want to stay in this country, you don't do anything to draw attention to yourself.

I have little hope you will actually read what I am about to post since it does not already fit into your political philosophy, but if anyone is interested in facts and not scare stories, here they are:


Center for Immigration Studies

See also:

Study: Immigrants don't raise U.S. crime rate | www.azstarnet.com ®

And see also:
Immigration: No Correlation With Crime
Immigration: No Correlation With Crime - TIME

Ironically, most studies show they are the victims of more crime than they are the perpetrators. Mostly since they are easy targets who will not go to the police.

And here irony for you: A study by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that, "cities with large immigrant populations showed larger reductions in property and violent crime than cities without large immigrant populations! Reductions in crime!

So the facts just do not back up your argument. Again, from my point of view, your strongest arguments are bigotry and fear. If those were my strongest arguments, I might do some serious re-thinking about my opinion.

Thank you once again for bringing some actual facts to this debate.

[marmac]

ONE crime committed by an ILLEGAL is one crime committed by a person who had no right,no legal status to even be in this country.

Once again, that "study" ( sarc) is another example of using the term " immigrants" to make a point.

I don't think this thread is about " immigrants" . It is about ILLEGALS.

The percent of ILLEGALS that are criminals ? ---Very HIGH!

Everytime ILLEGALS apply for a job at a poultry processing plant or meat packing plant ( prime examples) and show false identification paper, that is engaging in criminal activity.

Every time they drive their car to that parking lot, ILLEGALS are guilty of a criminal activity.

( I too, expect a thank you from nokygirl.)

[PONYPULR]

Just to be living in this country illegally is a crime, no?

[nokygirl]

Originally Posted by marmac

ONE crime committed by an ILLEGAL is one crime committed by a person who had no right,no legal status to even be in this country.

Once again, that "study" ( sarc) is another example of using the term " immigrants" to make a point.

I don't think this thread is about " immigrants" . It is about ILLEGALS.

The percent of ILLEGALS that are criminals ? ---Very HIGH!

Everytime ILLEGALS apply for a job at a poultry processing plant or meat packing plant ( prime examples) and show false identification paper, that is engaging in criminal activity.

Every time they drive their car to that parking lot, ILLEGALS are guilty of a criminal activity.

( I too, expect a thank you from nokygirl.)

Marmac - No can do. I stand by my post to you back on 9/21/09.