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Old 09-23-2009, 05:00 PM
No, the other London
 
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Location: KY
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Originally Posted by SVTLightning View Post
They built an Industrial Park between Ashland and Grayson and only 2 big companies moved in there, to me thats a failed venture.

I am not sure of the future of any of the Eastern Kentucky cities. My wife is from Olive Hill so we go back alot, but to be honest she is glad to be gone from there. SO many pills and pill heads there it is crazy. I never imagined small towns to be so drug ridden as it is now.

I know there are good people there also, but the drug scene is overtaking the good people.
Drug ridden? Aren't large cities all across the country dealing with that?? Yes, they are. It exists everywhere sadly.
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Old 09-23-2009, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by InLondon View Post
Drug ridden? Aren't large cities all across the country dealing with that?? Yes, they are. It exists everywhere sadly.
Drug abuse occurs everywhere, but KY (and eastern KY especially) cant be compared with big cities cause its not a fair comparison. Per capita, KY overall is considered the "prescription drug abuse capital" of the US (or at least they were in recent years) & they pretty much treat it as an epidemic.

Think about it. I dont live in E KY anymore (but my parents still do & I visit often), but I could sit here & name off 20 pill-heads that I personally know who are addicted. I cant do that anywhere else, even in big urban cities I've lived in. Im sure most of you know many who are as well.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:27 PM
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^
in a way it's different drugs in different places. Rural areas have oxycontin and meth and pot. Big citys have crack, heroin, coke. Or everwhere has everything, and its just what drugs are more popular in different places.

But we digress.

For the economic development issue here is a really good bit of reporting from the Levisa Lazer (which I guess is a local media outlet...Levisa fork of the Big Sandy) on the economic future of Appalachia, including interviews with Paul Patton, who apparently is or was a coal operator, and Ron Eller, who used to head UofKs Appalachian Studies Center:

New Study Asks: Coal vs Mixed Economy for Eastern KY Future

Sissy Cawood of Pineville, who helped oversee Family Resource and Youth Services Centers during the Patton administration, is also skeptical. “We have to come to terms with the fact that for much of Appalachia situated away from I-75 and any other major thoroughfare, there is not much hope for attracting industry,” she says. “The infrastructure is in place in every little town and county with industrial development sites . . . but still they sit idle.”

Still, Eller maintains, “ public resources have not gone toward looking for an alternative to coal mining” for economic development in Eastern Kentucky.

Education remains the key

Though they have different visions of Appalachia’s post-coal potential, when asked to identify the biggest impediment to economic development, Eller and Patton both responded with a single word: “education.” Cawood agrees, and says the push for job creation too often obscures the more basic problem. “When I hear county judges and chamber of commerce types speaking, it’s not about our education system,” she says. “It appears to me that they do not understand the connection between education and any kind of development or jobs-producing success in the region.”


I'm doing some googling on coal mine employment in E KY, and will post on that a bit later. This is an interesting subject to me, as I am a somtime vistor to that part of the state.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by InLondon View Post
Drug ridden? Aren't large cities all across the country dealing with that?? Yes, they are. It exists everywhere sadly.

It may have happened, but I do not hear of Governors of other states talking to the Florida Governor to change their laws because of prescription drug abuse in their states. The Ky Gov did just that because the problem is so bad there. Thats not the same as " large cities all across the country dealing with it".

I don't even live there anymore and know about it!
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Old 09-25-2009, 07:57 PM
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Here’s a quick look at coal production and employment in Eastern Kentucky.

First, some modern day coal employment numbers for surface and underground mining, and a total. One can see employment has pretty much plateaued since the 1990s, fluctuating within a range. It seems surface mining employment has been pretty stable in the recent past.



Taking the same numbers, but smoothing it a bit by showing the stats for every fifth year.



…in order to compare with production. Here’s the same years, but for coal production in tons. One can see production is dropping off from the high in around1990s (the actual high might be in a year somewhere on either side of this, assuming some spikeyness in production from year to year).



So, mining employment was falling even during a time of high production (1979-1980 to 1995), and the declined to a plateau at the same time production was declining.

Now, lets take the long view, at a century of coal production in Eastern Kentucky, starting in 1900, in five year intervals.



One can see the two lows in production, but what’s really remarkable is the explosion in production after the 1960s. This is quite impressive especially considering that the pre-war era was often considered the heyday of the Appalachian coalfield. I label the peak “Peak Coal” as an allusion to the concept of “peak oil”, but I don’t know if reserves are running out. Production has declined off that peak, but whether due to no more coal worth mining or other reasons (less demand?) is the question.

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to find mining employment stats for Eastern KY as whole going back to 1900. Instead, here is the combined population number from the census for the 20 coal producing counties of eastern Kentucky as of 2004 (except Greenup and Boyd)



One can see the population explosion after 1900 due to the development of mining, peaking around 1940-1950, then the decline in the early postwar era. One can assume this is due to out-migration as mining jobs became scarce because of automation and reduced production.

This is a familiar story, the decline of Appalachia, but what’s not well-known was that demographic rebound during the 1970s, where the aggregate coal county population increased, and then went steady-state after 1980.

Perhaps due to the increase in production because of the1970s “energy boom”,? Or maybe retirees returning home from the urban North?. Or an increase in birthrate? One would have to take a closer look at census data to make sense of this.

Taking a closer look at coal county employment and wages as an economic impact, for the top mining counties in Eastern Kentucky, here’s some interesting numbers. Employment is actually rather low, exceeding 20% for only Knott County. But the impact of the payroll can be big deal, being a significant portion of the total payroll for all of these counties. For example, mining is only 14% of employment in Harlan county, but accounts for nearly 31% of all wages.



Now, lets revisit the population history, looking at these counties. One can see what an impact mining had on the population of these counties, and how drastic the post WWII decline was for some of them.


(2007 numbers are a census projection)

The demographic rebound of the 1970s appears in most cases, strongest in Pike, fairly weak in Harlan, which was hit the hardest by the postwar population decline.

After 1980 population declines at a varying lower rates, in some of the smaller counties a fairly slight decline.

One thing I thought was interesting is the size of these counties at the beginning of the development of mining, back in 1900. How small they were. I was curious what the trend would have been if there was no coal. So I compared some of these higher production counties with a non-coal Appalachian county. The county I chose was Lewis , on the Ohio River, county seat Vanceburg. In 1900 Lewis would have had a fairly advantaged location, being on the river and on a railroad. I compared Lewis with similar sized counties in 1900 and then projected the population out to 2000



One can see how the early 20th century coal boom gave a strong demographic advantage to some of these counties. They started out smaller or slightly larger than Lewis, and never declined to even close to their starting position.

For Breathitt, there was a smaller increase in population during the early coal boom, perhaps meaning mining wasn’t as big a player as in the other counties. So the postwar decline brought it back into the same population range as Lewis county, tracking Lewis’ nearly steady-state population numbers after 1960.

It’s a good question as to what will happen after coal. In many cases we already are “after coal” since coal isn’t the dominant employer in even the higher employment counties. The big impact is payroll, which is still pretty large even in a somewhat post-coal era.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:11 PM
Chillaxin' with a great city view
 
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Diversification will be the future--eco-tourism, self-development of "tourist traps," and a federal research facility. Those will be great starts.

If a bright entrepreneurial mind can come up with a great concept for a theme park, country market, secluded resort, or combination of the three, really market the product and watch it take off, the results might be amazing. That's how the Smokies grew and grew in interest, it was really self-feeding. Start on US25E around Barbourville--close proximity to I-75--or someplace like that and see what happens.

Of course, the difference between Tennessee and Kentucky is the friendliness to small businesses. Tennessee has no corporate income taxes and fewer regulations. Kentucky actually ranks with California, Ohio and Massachusetts in terms of its oppressiveness. So that's another thing that can be improved upon at a statewide level that would greatly benefit Eastern Kentucky in particular.

Lastly, the parents of Eastern Kentucky need to stand up for their children and expect more competitive and tangibly positive results out of their local school systems. No, improving test scores by teaching test aren't really the answer, nor are improved school facilities, modern technology, increased funding and taxes, or watching schools "modernize" curricula by adding creative writing but not teaching basic history and economics fundamentals. If students aren't made to enjoy and be challenged by school and aren't prepared to function AND excel in whichever post-secondary path they choose (academia, vo-tech, apprenticeships, etc.,) then Eastern Kentucky will continue to be a poor place. Plain and simple.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:19 PM
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Start on US25E around Barbourville--close proximity to I-75--or someplace like that and see what happens.

Some of the I-75 counties are beating the trends shown on those county graphs. For example, Laurel county (London) took off, population wise, after 1960.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:32 PM
No, the other London
 
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Location: KY
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Originally Posted by JefferyT View Post
Start on US25E around Barbourville--close proximity to I-75--or someplace like that and see what happens.

Some of the I-75 counties are beating the trends shown on those county graphs. For example, Laurel county (London) took off, population wise, after 1960.

Laurel County is not listed on those graphs. Mining has never existed here.
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Old 09-25-2009, 09:00 PM
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No its not on those county graphs I posted. Those are just the major coal employment counties.

There was, apparently, some minor strip mining going on in Laurel in the early/mid 00's, so the county showed up as a coal producer.

On edit, here is Laurel County and some of its neighbors, and Lewis. I was going to use this as a comparison at first. Its interesting that you can see Laurel didnt participate in the big early 20th century coal boom population spike. But it really took off after 1970.



So one can see another road for a non-coal (or minimal coal) county vs coal producing areas. Not sure what is happening down there but they are doing something right in the London/Corbin area in growing and maintaining population.

Last edited by JefferyT; 09-25-2009 at 09:29 PM..
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