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Old 06-30-2007, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
6,758 posts, read 14,571,581 times
Reputation: 2021
I agree Slugger!
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:04 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,746 posts, read 3,245,782 times
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I understand why some people think that Kentucky belongs in the Midwest, given much of it is at the same latitude as Missouri, Illinois, and Indiana and some of Ohio. But if you've been there, the Southern culture, speech patterns, and feel are just too much to dismiss. I agree that Northern Kentucky might as well be considered part of the Midwest...it feels just like Cincinatti. Northern Kentucky is entirely different from the rest of the state. Louisville and Lexington are no doubt Southern architecturally, culturally, and demographically as well as historically. In fact if you ask me Kentucky is nothing more than Virginia moved further west. The state is full of tons of Confederate Memorials and very few Union ones, it's demographics are majority Southern Baptist and from English ancestry ( all of the Midwestern states are dominated by German ancestry), they drink sweet tea, serve Southern cuisine, and speak with a noticeable Southern slur. Climate-wise is about the only argument to make that it's not southern, and even then that argument cannot be fully made. The state is somewhere in between a humid continental climate and humid subtropical. Conclusion? Kentucky is without a doubt a Southern state. I think what a state was during the Civil War has really no relevance to what it is today unless it legimately seceded from the Union. Border states like KY and MO went opposite ways of each other...Missouri became a predominantly Midwestern state, while Kentucky "joined the Confederacy." Kentucky's agriculture and industry are unquestionably Southern. Tobacco, cotton, bourbon, horse-breeding....also another thing to keep in mind is that Kentucky lost black population during the Great Migration of the early 20th century. I don't see any way to argue it being anything but Southern. Kentucky's major cities also gained in black population during the Reverse Migration, just like the rest of the Southern cities. Having said all this, I will be damned if Kentucky is a Midwestern state. In a recent survey conducted by the University of North Carolina, states in the lower Midwest and upper south were asked what percentage of the populations considered themselves Southern...if I remember correctly, it was something like between 80 and 90% for Illinois in favor of being Midwestern, same with indiana, 77% for Missouri in favor of being Midwestern, and 80-90% for Ohio in favor of being Midwestern, whereas with Kentucky, 70% considered themselves southern. Around 200 people from all over each state were questioned, so the sampling was no doubt good.

Last edited by ajf131; 06-30-2007 at 04:16 PM..
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:19 PM
 
301 posts, read 972,052 times
Reputation: 163
[quote=ajf131;980645]
Quote:
In a recent survey conducted by the University of North Carolina, states in the lower Midwest and upper south were asked what percentage of the populations considered themselves Southern...if I remember correctly, it was something like between 80 and 90% for Illinois in favor of being Midwestern, same with indiana, 77% for Missouri in favor of being Midwestern, and 80-90% for Ohio in favor of being Midwestern, whereas with Kentucky, 70% considered themselves southern. Around 200 people from all over each state were questioned, so the sampling was no doubt good.
Thanks AJ, The study actually found that around 80% of Kentuckians identify with the South.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/US_map-South_Modern.png (broken link)

State's in Dark red almost always included in the South's definition.

State's in light red usually/more than likely included in the South's defintion

Stiped states are sometimes ocassionally included.

John Shelton Reed Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses) Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411) West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses) Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791) West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336) All others less than 6 percent.

UNC-CH surveys reveal where the ‘real’ South lies

This study has been conducted for over a decade by UNC and is still being conducted.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:57 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,746 posts, read 3,245,782 times
Reputation: 660
[quote=Louisvilleslugger;982330]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post

Thanks AJ, The study actually found that around 80% of Kentuckians identify with the South.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/US_map-South_Modern.png (broken link)

State's in Dark red almost always included in the South's definition.

State's in light red usually/more than likely included in the South's defintion

Stiped states are sometimes ocassionally included.

John Shelton Reed Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses) Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411) West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses) Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791) West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336) All others less than 6 percent.

UNC-CH surveys reveal where the ‘real’ South lies

This study has been conducted for over a decade by UNC and is still being conducted.
Wow, even less Missourians consider themselves Southern than I originally thought, only 15%. I think that pretty confirms most of Missouri is without a doubt Midwestern. But even then that percentage doesn't surprise me a whole lot. Looks like approximately equal amounts of Missourians and Indianans consider themselves Southern. I think both percentages that you mention, Slugger, clearly show where each state belongs, Slugger. This to me makes it clear enough, and honestly most of the outcomes are as I suspected, although for Oklahoma I was surprised at how many people consider their communites Southern, 70%?? I guess it does make some sense given Oklahoma is geographically Southern and has Southern influences from Arkansas and Texas. As to the percentage of Oklahomans that consider themselves Southern, 53% is around what I imagine one would expect...I always considered Oklahoma 50% Southwestern and 50% Southern anyways. As for Texas I think it's in a category of its own but it definitely does have VERY strong Southern influences. 80% of Kentuckians consider their communities Southern, 68% identify themselves as Southerners. I think that pretty much confirms that Kentucky is without a doubt Southern. Aside from its stance during the Civil War, which was split, there is nothing that Kentucky is lacking from being a Southern state. I also don't really consider most of the striped states part of the South either. The ones in solid red and dark red I would say should be included.

Last edited by ajf131; 07-02-2007 at 01:06 AM..
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Land of Ill Noise
611 posts, read 1,035,266 times
Reputation: 249
[quote=Louisvilleslugger;982330]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post

Thanks AJ, The study actually found that around 80% of Kentuckians identify with the South.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/US_map-South_Modern.png (broken link)

State's in Dark red almost always included in the South's definition.

State's in light red usually/more than likely included in the South's defintion

Stiped states are sometimes ocassionally included.

John Shelton Reed Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses) Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411) West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses) Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791) West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336) All others less than 6 percent.

UNC-CH surveys reveal where the ‘real’ South lies

This study has been conducted for over a decade by UNC and is still being conducted.
Never mind that I'm replying to this late as all heck, but I thought this was a very interesting study to read, especially since I'd sometimes had heard people before classifying Kentucky as a Midwestern state, and Missouri being classified as a Southern state. And of course, both of these alleged classifications I disagree with(with the possible exception of the Louisville, and the 3 Kentucky counties to the very south of Cincy being more Midwestern in nature).

On the other hand, I'm still not sure though how to classify West Virginia, since it blurs the line inbetween being a Southern state, and being a Northern state. I guess you can classify it as both
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:42 PM
 
156 posts, read 429,974 times
Reputation: 40
MorganMRE, who called you a hick being from KY when you lived in "Greater Cincinnati"? That doesn't even make sense... a very large part of the city's region falls on that side of the river... they were probably just busting your chops for being more of a country boy than them (yes there are people around here who are from town). I'm born and bread in Cincy and those of us on the KY side mix pretty fluidly with both people in surround counties and the city. When your around there, its all kind of Cincy.

People who aren't hicks tend to bust chops and people who are so... hey thats just how it goes anywhere. Just because your southern doesn't mean you have to be a hick. Also i'd add that this area doesn't feel a whole lot different in terms of southern feel to me than lousiville, unless of course you happen upon Churchill during the derby when all the hats and what not are out. Actually, that area has become quite "progressive" if you know what I mean.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,025 posts, read 1,636,606 times
Reputation: 931
Those John Shelton Reed-UNC/Chapel Hill surveys I think are very flawed, I don't know why people take them so seriously. Asking someone if they are "Southern" or if they live in a "Southern" state is not very subtle, those are very emotional terms as anyone here knows. It's like doing a survey on prejudice in the US and asking "Are you an anti-Semite?" And do peoples' opinions of who they think they are really qualify as fact? I remember a survey some years ago about income and class in the US, they gathered factual data from respondents about their income and then asked them to classify themselves and they found that most Americans said they were "middle-class", all the way from high-income to working poor.

The US Census Bureau was a little more discerning than the Univ. of NC. They avoided emotionally charged words like "Southern" and just asked people about their ethnic background. I found it very illuminating that the old Mason-Dixon/Ohio River border cropped up again after so many years of people saying it was no longer relevant. Here's a link to the map, you can click on it to enlarge it. http://http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pics/geo200/culture/ancestry.gif (broken link)
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Good ol Georgia
349 posts, read 684,792 times
Reputation: 90
I've always gotten a southern feel when visiting Kentucky...by the way, it's a beautiful state
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Good ol Georgia
349 posts, read 684,792 times
Reputation: 90
That is a very strange demographic map. I've never seen one broke down as "American" and then all the other nationalities, including African American...it's a very confusing map.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:02 PM
 
731 posts, read 1,125,745 times
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This is fascinating. I can see why the "American" is predominately in the south. that area was and is a major melting pot. Unlike some of the other states where ancestry was maintained as important. Like "Irish/Catholics" in NY, etc.

The US Census Bureau was a little more discerning than the Univ. of NC. They avoided emotionally charged words like "Southern" and just asked people about their ethnic background. I found it very illuminating that the old Mason-Dixon/Ohio River border cropped up again after so many years of people saying it was no longer relevant. Here's a link to the map, you can click on it to enlarge it. http://http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pics/geo200/culture/ancestry.gif (broken link)[/quote]
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