Old JC Redevelopment Study - Thoughts? (Kingsport, Rogersville: transplants, sale, apartment)

[mbmouse]

Can anyone find the link to the article Sara posted so I can help her out with the computer issues? I have tried a search on the JC Press web site trying to find it with no luck. (I never did like that site! grrrrrrr)
Thanks

[SarahSal]

Originally Posted by NorthernLights

Volunteers needed to serve on new Downtown Task Force
06/26/09
CONTACT: Becky Hilbert, director
Community Relations
(423)434-6022



The Johnson City Board of Commissioners will be making appointments to the newly created Downtown Task Force. This body will be charged primarily with overseeing the development of a unified master plan for downtown. It will consider the appropriateness of the various downtown redevelopment/stormwater management plans that have been created to date and combine those findings into one document for consideration by the Board of Commissioners. The unified master plan will be the guide for future redevelopment efforts in the downtown area.
Potential appointees should be interested in community affairs, have an interest in and understanding of downtown development, and be a resident of the city. Any citizen who is interested in serving as a member of the Downtown Task Force may pick up an application at the Municipal and Safety Building, 601 E. Main St., or call (423)434-6022 for an application to be mailed or faxed. To complete applications online, visit www.johnsoncitytn.org.


City of Johnson City, TN - News Room- News Room Home

Well..... Naturally I'm a wee bit skeptical but this does ~sound~ good because for the very first time it's coming straight from a *city commissioner* - not a recycled version of another JCDA plan by a recycled group of JCDA board members. To explain: The JCDA has managed much of what has occured (or not) downtown. Over the last decade and a half, as old JCDA members left and new board members (or directors) were appointed, we'd witness some new member propose what they thought was a brilliant idea or plan. Only problem was; if they'd looked at downtown's and the JCDA's history, chances are they would have found some already drafted version of *their* plan or ideas.

There is a virtual mountain of plans and ideas from which to formulate a new master plan (I have a file cabinet full of these). So, it *is* entirely possible that this latest approach - which will encompass all previous plans - could take shape fairly quickly. I can only hope all the eager new committee members will be fully educated and enlightened on downtown's more recent history, which can shed light on why so many good ideas have not come to fruition (that old paraphrased quote - "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it").

I also hope that any new members who join the group will realize this effort has been attempted on many occasions in the past. Therefore, *this* effort desperately needs to work - not only in drafting a good plan (from the many) but most important of all, ACTING on it and pushing it through to fruition.
Downtown can not afford to wait much longer..

Just some of the more recent studies and surveys (not in order of date):

The 'Cultural' District Study (replete w/ well-attended charrettes (sp)

The Dover/Kohl Study/Report (with a particularly well-drawn approach to progressive downtown redevelopment)

Friends of Old Downtown's Study/Survey - (revised versions of what downtowners felt would impact downtown's growth)

JCDA's Downtown Action Plan - Extensive plan Put together by board members w/ help and imput from downtowners

Downtown Action Coalition's survey - Downtowners 'voting' on what was most important to them

(And I'm sure there are more...)

I DO wish this new group great success in working collaboratively towards downtown's final solution..

[jabogitlu]

A stormwater task force is involved with AMEC, an engineering firm, as AMEC consolidates years’ worth of studies and plans regarding downtown’s flooding into what is supposed to be the mother of all master plans and a template for how the city proceeds with downtown flood prevention.

Looks like this plan is somewhat serious. At least, it's been cross-referenced in another JC Press article, discussing mitigating flooding in downtown and Knob Creek @ Sunset.

JohnsonCityPress.com - Local News - Johnson City, TN

[NorthernLights]

I'm sorry if I misunderstood which article MBMouse was looking for a copy of for Sarah. I have not been able to read posts too much in depth here in the last week or so do to other projects.
Like everyone else here I hope JC can solve its flooding problems and downtown revitalizing issues. Like most similar problems all it takes is a couple dozen million dollars to fix it [laugh]. It can be done though over time. I include this link to how they fixed flooding and rundown areas up near where I used to live in Frederick MD. Devastating floods caused the little Carroll Creek to flood out and do millions in damage twice in the '70s to downtown Frederick. They devised building a lovely park with a dam and digging a giant underground box culvert to channel the water through town and then they put a small canal above the culvert with a park/walkway on each side which creates not only a parkway area but further flood control through town. [It ran through a large part of town which had gone to seed] You can wade across this little canal with the scenic bridges and parkway buffer on each side of it. Millions of dollars and a few decades later Voila'. It is truly beautiful with its bridges and cafes and condos lining the creek now in what was a dead old area of Frederick. It would be really cool to see something similar get built down here to solve both flooding and revitalization downtown. There's still more condo and commercial space development to come along with this project and like everywhere things have hit the skids until real estate and the economy can climb back up again. But the creek park is done and it is really a beautiful place to go walk, roller blade and/or just hang out.

Carroll Creek Park : The City of Frederick Economic Development - Business in Frederick, MD

[SarahSal]

Thanks, Jab for the latest article and NLights for the great link! Gorgeous pics of your former city and its flood mitigation projects. JC officials *DO* know what's been accomplished in other cities to deal with flooding. At least two JC city meetings I attended had illustrative slideshows with similiar projects, which had corrected flooding while adding to the beauty of each city in a creative way. Everyone at those meetings - several years back - was excited about the possibilities for our own downtown.

[NorthernLights]

I'm glad you enjoyed seeing what can be done. That project was started decades ago, has taken a long time, moving in fits and starts, and the city of Frederick has a strong tax base. That project took many, many millions of dollars!! The town is about the same size as JC but I'd have to venture a guess that the budget they operate on would make the local city council faint. MD has State and local county and city income tax in addition to Federal income tax, and many of the region's inhabitants commute daily an hour to two hours, each way, [500 to 600 miles a week on their cars, 50 weeks a year], to high paying jobs in the DC area because the local Frederick City jobs don't pay that well in spite of the wealth in that town. [My former girlfriend's Mother was an executive admin. assistant, I think it was at Washington Hospital Center, 15 to 20 years in with the hospital, with no college degree and before she retired made close to 70,000/year. The last two years she worked there the executive she worked for had moved on and not been replaced. She basically sat in front of an empty office, helped other admins with their typing, etc. and did Sodoku word puzzles. She got up each morning about 4 - 5 am to get ready for work and to catch the bus across Frederick to catch the 6:30 train [the sleeping car, she took her little pillow in her bag with her sneakers, where most folks put their heads back and snored all the way to DC. Other cars were for people who read the paper, worked on their laptops/cell phones, etc.] and get to her office by 8. She didn't get back home in the evening until 7:15 pm. Long day for a 9-5 job for a 60+ year old gal with asst'd ailments, in spite of the obscene salary. The salary only got that large at the very end of her career and most of her career she made much, much less.
They pay a whole lot of taxes up there, State income tax, 6% sales tax, and the city/county property taxes for my former girlfriend's 350,000 dollar townhouse were over 3,000.00 a year [nice house, postage stamp yard, no garages, so fighting for parking spaces just like in an apartment complex]. They got trash pickup for their taxes but nothing else. No water, sewer, all that was add'l. bills.The city government has a whole lot more money to p--s away on such projects and it still has taken them decades to get this far. It is a lovely town, probably my personal fav in Maryland, but way too expensive for me to buy a lousy home in lousy part of town or even a small, old home a half an hour further up the road towards WV. You make twice as much a year at the same job up there as you do down here but it's all a wash or maybe even worse when you look at what it costs to live, commute, and work there.

[jabogitlu]

That's a fair point. Many cities in the Southeast are far less developed than other places (talking about small cities here, not places like Raleigh or Birmingham), but our taxes are less, too.

Frederick also I'm sure benefited enormously from being so close to a gigantic metro area, the center of the federal government. I'm sure their populace is better educated and more cosmopolitan from the get-go. When we're talking about Johnson City, here on the forum we get excited about redevelopment, but the truth is most of the people living here, especially outside the Johnson City city limits, go to work, go to Walmart and go home, and couldn't give a rats ass what downtown JC looks like.

[NorthernLights]

Now Jabog,

The southeast doesn't have the corner on the "Joe-Six-Pack" market. The Walton family has many, many, thriving superstores up east too with the same exact clientele I believe you are alluding to and they sell millions of gallons of 'affordable' brands of beer up there daily [lots of cigarettes too even though the tax on them is twice as high]. There are plenty of neighborhoods I could drop you off in downtown Frederick MD that you'd look at me like; "I'd really rather not get out and walk through here thank you very much." Hell, I can take to places all over Pennsyl-tucky [Marylander joke] just north of the ol' Mason-Dixon line that you'd think make parts of the southeast look downright progressive!!
I was just making the observation that yes, Frederick has done some very, very nice things to fix both drainage problems and renewing dead zones of their old town....and they have a large tax base to do it with, they spend it like water, and it still took them decades to make improvements to their fair city. Be thankful that southern politicians have an aversion to taxing their constituents like there's no end to the money they can squeeze from their citizenry. If it was more like that up "home" I'd probably still live there. It's beautiful here...but it's beautiful up there too. I just don't want to give half [or more] of my income to the government every time I turn around.
Johnson City can and will grow into a beautiful civic centre with just as beautiful attractions. You all are just starting later than some cities...but you're still ahead of others...even up east. Like Scranton or Allentown or Altoona PA or...oh Gosh, I won't bore you with a long list of s--thole towns up east that have the same issues or much worse than JC does.

[jabogitlu]

I like Allentown. It has pretty amazing density for a city its size. Never been to Scranton and never even heard of Altoona. I've spent much more time in western Pennsylvania so I'll hush now.

And you're right that "those" (I'm starting to sound preachy here, not my intention - I've consumed my fair share of beer and cigs ) kinds of people exist everywhere. My comment should've been something more like the kinds of jobs that exist in or at least with commuting distance of Frederick don't exist here. Comparatively, East TN has very few blue collar jobs and even fewer high-class (not sure of the term here?) positions - think the Research Triangle here.

It's less of a "people" thing and more of a (socio-)economic thing.

And I am grateful that our city doesn't impose what I would consider to be a heavy tax burden and I do believe they more or less spend what money I give them wisely. That IS one thing that Johnson City has going for it. However, I do believe that it doesn't invest enough in city planning, nor do I think the majority of the city leaders understand basic concepts of urbanity and density. It makes me sad to see complex after complex go into North Johnson City and Boones Creek when there are vast lots empty around downtown, on close-in North State of Franklin and West SOF, Knob Creek, and parts of South Johnson City. Also, the city's lack of infrastructure improvements and guidance to business has resulted in med-tech going in where it shouldn't. A classic example is MSHA's Human Resources-JC in the strip mall near Barberito's. That type of business belongs downtown.

[NorthernLights]

Jabog,

I was just bustin' your chops as usual. I knew what you meant [even if you actually like Allentown PA....It's dense alright!]. Being from Maryland, we're snobs, we know it, we're proud, we're blue collar kind of folks, [the hair-do capital of the world, Hon] and we pick on the surrounding states, just like they pick on us. Rivalries, sports teams, etc.. Being from the Baltimore area don't even talk to me about the Steelers, the Yankees or the Boston Red Sox, or the Redskins, etc. so on. Chesapeake Bay Blue Crabs are the sweetest, densest crab meat available anywhere on the planet, period, etc. so on. I grew up along the PA line and I lived in both ends of WV [Huntington and Shepherdstown] As we used to joke about West Virginia; "It's not Hell, but you can see it from there" and of course in my best Rodney Dangerfield voice "What's the best thing to come out of Pennsylvania....An empty bus" [cymbal/rim shot!].
About your observations that currently the progressive growth hereabouts can be seen sprawling to the outskirts of town but think of it as waves rippling out from the center of a pond when you see the growth out to Boone's Creek [where I live] etc. When the growth hits the banks it will ripple back inward. i saw it in Asheville which is like a big bowl. It expanded outward and eventually the growth came back to the downtown area. I think it will ripple back downtown and if you invest down there at the right time...you could do well. Just a guess.