Old JC Redevelopment Study - Thoughts?

[jabogitlu]

You're probably right. But I'm not a very patient person. I want it NOW! (Plus, by then, I'll probably be gone. )

[NorthernLights]

Well then, wherever you decide to move that is better than here i hope you hit it at just the right time.
Sometimes it's possible to move away from the right place right before it becomes...the right place to be...at the right time.
I've actually done it myself so I know how you can miss a golden opportunity.
My older brother, who lived in Asheville in the 1980's told me to move down there and get in while the getting was good. We're talking around 1987. I laughed at him and said; "Asheville? What a **** hole. The whole downtown is boarded up and the windows are soaped over. There's nothing to do down there. Forget about it. Baltimore is where I want to be."
Turns out Baltimore was already bought up by then and I couldn't get in. Downtown Asheville in the late 80's turned out to be the place I should've bought into. I f--ked up.
But...there's always another right place to be. In the next city. Somewhere.
So I hope you find happiness and that perfect place where ever it may be.

[jabogitlu]

I'm far from a real estate agent. Or an investment buyer. So I'm sure I'll be fine.

[NorthernLights]

I'm not talking about a being big money real estate buyer.
If I had bought one little bungalow in the fringe areas of Asheville for next to nothing in the late 80's when my brother told me to buy there, near downtown Asheville, or west AVL I would've been able to make a s--tload of money off of a minimal investment of sweat equity in the 90's. I could have made enough money from one or two flips that would've made me not have a mortgage payment for the rest of my life!!!! Not talking about buying an old department store or factory or something. Although if you can swing the credit...do it! Talk to people like Doug Beatty who did the very thing in the 1990's when he built Barley's Taproom on Biltmore Ave. in 1992. The guy's my age and he did what I should've done so don't talk to me, talk to someone who was successful at it. You can find him at his new enterprise, the Kingsport Grocery co. in Kinsgport. Don't listen to me, listen to people who did something monumental, successfully. As my friend's Grandfather once said, if you want to make money go stand next to people who have done it and talk to them.
It's about looking at something you already know a lot about, and Jabog, you know an awful lot about this area and where the growth might be. I'll give you that!
My Father bought undeveloped land in the 60's and 70's for a song, northeast of Baltimore in Carroll Co. He bought land that had good timber on it and sold the timber which paid for the price of the land. Then he just sat on it keeping it in AG zoning and paying low taxes on it. It takes decades sometimes but I sold some of that same land several years ago [4 decades later] that he bought for a couple of thousand dollars, for close to 2 million dollars. And there's still more land left to sell! Get that kind of return from the stock market...I challenge you. Real estate...even small amounts of it...for the man or woman who has the balls and foresight to see what the future can bring...will make you wealthier than anything else I have witnessed in my 50 years. Dad said; "go to the edge of town and buy the land right where the property taxes drop off and hold onto it for years...and you will retire a wealthy man". This is no Mr. Kiyosaki, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" Bulls--t. It is tried and true. Well, unfortunately my Dad died in a tractor accident in 1982 but if not...he would've been a very wealthy old man. It's a simple equation...it takes only a few things...foresight, perseverance...and time.
I'm no success story, Gosh knows, I'm only reporting what I have seen that has worked for others. Hopefully, I'm not too late to prosper from what I have learned. i can only assume that you may be younger than me so you have an even better chance to make this happen for you. I hope so.

[pineywoods]

Northern Lights, you are right on with your assessments regarding real estate vs. stock market. My husband has preached that to our children for years, and they have done much better than their peers as a result. When we were young, we bought an old home and turned it into a duplex...the renter paid the house payment. That was our start. Over the years we continued along the same road. Living beneath our means and investing in real estate has allowed us to buy the farm we're building on right now in Tennessee. Scarlett (Gone With The Wind) was right...don't sell the land...sit on it and it if it's in the right place, at the right time it will hold you in good stead.

[SarahSal]

Great discussion, guys (and gal)! Real estate and especially, LAND (bought at just the right time) is where it's at - no real maintenance and much lower taxes (than with a structure). You can sit on it without much expense other than taxes.

Years ago (about the time NL's brother bought in Asheville) as '30 somethings' we took our first trip to Latin America; Costa Rica to be precise. Discovered beautiful property on or near the ocean for a pittance. Almost bought 7 acres *with a stream* on top of a hill with a fifty mile view down the coastline for, believe it or not - $25,000. Had a contract on it until a brewing little war w/ Nicaragua scared us off. IF we HAD bought we would have been millionaires by now as that whole southern coast has gone totally beserk with buyers from all over the world - and this property was a dream property. When we were there it was just a sleepy little spot in paradise.

Being prescient about an area can really pay off big time. We're kind of done with our land investing days but if we were still looking, I'd choose Hawkins and/or Hancock County for the future. Beautiful countryside and the lowest land prices around. They're 'in the sticks' now but as Washington and Greene County fill up with all the transplants headed here, I'd bet that this *could* be the next hot spot for those looking for larger, affordable parcels of land. And nearby Rogersville is such a lovely little town with that wonderful and newly restored inn. A sign perhaps that this area is poised to become a new destination.

[NorthernLights]

Hawkins and Hancock county huh? Interesting. It's true. Rogersville is such a pretty little town. Lisa and I rode down there on my motorcycle three weeks back and rode back up north along the Holston through what I believe is called Carter Valley down between the Clinch and Bays Mountain ridges.
Watching my Father's experience with real estate taught me the lesson. It takes decades sometimes to make the kind of huge returns he and my Mother earned but he was careful to buy land that had timber ready to harvest on it back in the late 50's, 60's and even into the 70's in a [then] rural area about 40 miles north of Baltimore. As I stated he sold the timber [he was a consulting forester so he didn't even need to hire a middle man...but that's not expensive, maybe 15% of the timber sale.] The money he made on the timber enabled him to turn right around and pay the land off in it's entirety. Nowadays, with the cost of most land that's not way out in BFE that's hard to do but it can significantly offset the cost of the purchase and it's surprising how many people will sell their land without first doing a timber sale. Apparently they can't see the forest for the trees or the other way around, [chuckle].That's like walking away and leaving chips on the card table. If you hold the land for as many decades as my folks did and selectively harvest the timber you can get more than one harvest off it in your lifetime as well. That can help pay off the land and pay for the years of property taxes and if the land stays in Ag zoning until you finally sell it the taxes will be a pittance. I wish he could've been there at the settlement table with my Mother instead of me when the folks who had just agreed to buy a 12 acre wooded parcel from my Mother to build on for 350,000 dollars asked me what my folks had paid for the property since the property taxes were only 22 dollars a year. I told them that back in 1959 my parents had paid 1,100.00 for the same property they had just agreed to pay 350,000 dollars for. [What percentage of return would that be I ask you? Do the math and compare that to the stock market.] Plus, that was one of the first woodlots they bought so we had actually gotten three harvests off of it probably returning over 60,000 dollars worth of timber income over the decades.
Every time you drive up the road and go through a little area where they put up a traffic light a few years back and now McDonald's, BP, Dairy Queen and Walgreen's have popped up there remember that someone bought that land decades ago with money they could have easily invested elsewhere or pi--ed away on a boat or a new car...now they are millionaires.
Even if you can't afford such an ambitious long rage investment and just need a place to live I think you'd be wise to find yourself a "fixer" and do the sweat equity route once or twice, putting all the equity from each sale into the next house you buy until you have next to no monthly mortgage payment. For the hard work and moving once or twice to the same size home your mortgage will get smaller each time while your buddies who rent watch their rent increase over the years. Or buy a place with a Mother-in-law apartment or consider the duplex route. As some of my friends who have gone the landlord route will tell you it is chock full of headaches at times but it's still nice having someone else work hard all week to pay for your retirement nest egg.
Plus, unlike the stock market which goes up and down drastically and as we've seen recently has wiped out 30+ years of some folks hard work and investing, at no time in the 50 years my folks held that land was it ever worth less than they bought it for and like all real estate you can borrow against it in the event of an emergency which you can't do with stocks. You can always go live on your property and grow vegetables if you have to also. Can't really eat your stocks or go live on them.