homes with synethic stucco (Knoxville: homeowners insurance, loan, attorney)

[puddin97]

Hi all.
Our family is relocating to the Knoxville area and we started to look at houses this weekend. We put a bid on one in Montgomery Bay. It was wayyyyy bigger than we needed but had the community things I was looking for for my kids.

We put the bid in and then received a disclosure form. We, the realtor and I, were under the assumption that the house was stucco but were informed that it was synthetic stucco. My realtor's smile was gone in a flash.

Does anyone know anything about this? If its so bad, does it cost a fortune to replace the stucco with a different exterior?

thank you soooo much.

[goodbyehollywood]

I'm not sure of all the details, but my realtor wouldn't even show me houses with synthetic stucco. They don't do well in this climate, and there have been lawsuits. There are a lot of homes on the market in lots of nice neighborhoods. Why take chances?

Good luck!

[Beretta]

Originally Posted by puddin97

Hi all.
Our family is relocating to the Knoxville area and we started to look at houses this weekend. We put a bid on one in Montgomery Bay. It was wayyyyy bigger than we needed but had the community things I was looking for for my kids.

We put the bid in and then received a disclosure form. We, the realtor and I, were under the assumption that the house was stucco but were informed that it was synthetic stucco. My realtor's smile was gone in a flash.

Does anyone know anything about this? If its so bad, does it cost a fortune to replace the stucco with a different exterior?

thank you soooo much.

I speak from experience: DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH SYNTHETIC STUCCO ON THE EXTERIOR that is exposed to the elements.

Rarely do I type in call caps. If you need more info just ask but just consider this: I had two inspection tests prior to purchase, everything checked out fine, I went to do some cosmetic improvements and found out that there was extensive water damage behind the stucco, contractor moved in for about 3 months, I had plastic sheets for walls (interior and exterior), I had a dumpster in my front yard the entire time, I had to get an emergency loan to cover the costs, my homeowners insurance would not cover it. I could actually hammer a nail in myself and the nail would fall back out. I had to replace over 20 windows, and about the rest of the exterior of my house that wasn't brick. Many months later my house looked better than ever; of course it was practically brand new. And, I can't tell you the number of compliments I get on it or the business I have sent to the contractor and the stone company. The Mayor even stopped by to tell us he had enjoyed watching the progress. Realtors called to say that had really improved the look of the house. It was a painful process to receive those compliments! Of course, the yard had to grow back in where the dumpster was. I was told that the affected portion of my house would have fallen in within 5 years had we not discovered this! Keep in mind, we had two inspections that had come back fine! (yearite) A lawsuit that was finally adjudicated three years later, the insurance company paid for the repairs; minus attorney fees. (I was still in the hole over $20,000!)

I now have one of the best built houses around (nothing like rebuilding while you are there to live in it at the time). The only way that I would ever buy a synthetic stucco home would be for all of the stucco to be removed, the wood behind it replaced and then the exterior be replaced with hardi plank and/or stone like we did; by a reputable builder while I watched the entire process.

Hope this helps.

[fallfanatic]

SMG...Thats a scarry event! I'm afraid I would have been devastated if that happened to us. Thank you for the warning! I certainly wouldn't have known otherwise.
I am glad that it all worked out in the end. Even though it was an expensive endeavor.
You just saved the original poster and many more of us from a very frighting and expensive mistake.

[hiknapster]

No kidding. That is horrifying. I know a lot about economics and negotiations but nothing about the actual homes. I would have never known, if it wasn't for all of you.

[Bones]

This thread should be moved to the House forum with such valuable information...

[Barking Spider]

Synthetic stucco or EIFS (Exterior Insulating Finishing System) does have a bunch of documented problems. SMG has personal experience with it. Listen to her.

As a home inspector, I chose not to get into the stucco inspection market. There are basically three tools used to inspect EIFS, 1. a non-invasive moisture meter that is slid along the walls and checks for elevated moisture content behind the finish coat, 2. a moisture meter that has 6" long probes to get to the wood sheathing behind the stucco, and 3. an infra-red camera to check for hot spots that allows the inspector to "see" inside the walls. Of course the fourth tool is the eyes of the inspector, to look for deviations from prescribed installation specifications.

Here are the built-in limitations of each tool.
1. The non invasive moisture meter can get "false positives" from unseen metal inside the walls, such as corner trim, nails, staples, and electrical wiring. The protocol is to check with the non invasive meter for hot spots, then switch to tool #2.

2. The probe meter is used at pre-determined locations. Two little holes are poked in the EIFS, and the meter probes are inserted to check for elevated moisture levels. This meter is pretty effective, and generally very accurate. However, if the probe hits a moisture DAMAGED section, and the operator does not "feel" the subtle difference when probing, the tips of the probe may be touching air instead of the sheathing, and give a "dry" reading.

The problem here is if there hasn't been much rain for a while, the sheathing under the EIFS may have dried out, and show the true damage that lies under the surface.

3. The infra-red camera is a very expensive tool (approx $15K), and not a lot of EIFS inspectors own them. They show differences in temperatures, which translates into moisture issues (usually). While these super cool tools may be impressive, they are not fool proof and can be misleading too, especialy in the hands of someone that has not had extensive training with it.

Many years ago I enrolled in a 3-day class to get certified in EIFS inspections. During the first hour or so, the instructor told us about these tools, and their limitations, then he added one other little tidbit.....
Even if I used ALL of these tools, there is a fair chance I might still miss, or NOT identify a problem. Knowing the potential liability I could face dealing with these homes, I decided, as a business decision, to NOT inspect EIFS.

When I'm called to inspect a house, and I'm told it's EIFS, I make it clear that I am not an EIFS inspector and they have a couple choices. They can hire me to do the regular home inspection and hire someone else to do the EIFS. They can hire someone to do the EIFS, BEFORE I do the inspection (sometimes after the EIFS, they don't need my services), or they can find an inspector that will do both.

There are several EIFS inspectors in the Knoxville area, however there are only one or two that I would refer, and a couple that, if asked, I would probably tell my client to keep calling around.

I have inspected many houses that have a recent EIFS inspection report sitting on the counter, many also have the documentation of the repairs completed. Many of those look pretty good, since they have taken care of all the "issues". Several of the homes have had little or no repairs done, even though the EIFS report is over a year old.

It is also suggested that a follow up inspection be done once a year by a EIFS inspector, to ensure the "hot spots" are still in good condition.

Sorry if this is too much info...
Feel free to PM for more info if needed

[gemkeeper]

Companies are now, within the past two years or so, using a more effective vapor barrier when installing EIFS. However, I do not know of any company that will stand behind their product if installed in the SE. The risk that one takes, especially in this part of the country, will never justify the savings of synthetic stucco over hard stucco. And, even hard stucco has its problems with cracking and water damage.

Our home in MA had a partial area done with the old barrier system and the manufacturer did warrantee it if installed by one of their approved installers. We went ahead and did the install knowing that we were far north of the target danger area of the country.

We did not have to contend with damp, humid summer weather, but we did have severe cold and snow and ice storms. Our first winter in the house did a real torture number on our EIFS. The snow and ice as they melted off of window sill and such allowed moisture to get between the barrier and the EIFS itself and then froze again, expanding and cracking away the exterior EIFS! By spring our house was peeling off like a wall paper being stripped of its wall paper.

Fortunately, because the manufacturer deemed the product non-problematic for our part of the country and did warrantee it, they paid to have all of the material removed and hard stuccoed. It was, as SMG said, weeks of work, a horrible mess inside and out, and the new landscaping had to all be replaced (at the manufacturer's expense).

So, although it did not cost us monetarily, the heartache and frustration of the repairs on our new dream home clearly created one of the worse experiences of our lives.

We will use nothing other than brick, stone or hardiplank on a home, whether it be in the south or north. True, the majority of homes in other parts of the country outside of the SE do not have as many problems with the EIFS, but I don't see any sense in taking the risk of being in that 4% or 15% or whatever % it might be.

Listen to Barking Spider, a worthy home inspector, and SMG and myself, 2 who have lived through the nightmare, and find another material to use on your home.