Another newbie with questions (Knoxville: condo, houses, heat pump)

[Bones]

Originally Posted by ButterflyGirl58

Hey now Bones, I was watching an old Victorian that dropped in price by $10K and now it's gone! I can have a little hope can't I?

Sure, y'all can hope..... $10k would not be a lot IMHO...

[creeksitter]

It used to be that gas was cheaper than electric heat. Now not so much. Your heating costs will vary with the efficiency of the furnace but more importantly with how drafty and insulated the house is. All things you can change of course. Forced heat probably means forced air which is the prevalent type of heat around here but some old houses still have radiators.

[knoxgarden]

A fireplace is charming, but actually can add to the cost of heating. It pulls hot air from the room and sends it up the chimney. They are also expensive to maintain. Bricks get loose, liners collapse, the flu gets blocked, etc. That why so many are closed up, particularly in older houses. The codes for using them are strict and many old ones would have to be taken apart and put back together to get it working again although there are ways you can retrofit it with new liners. It's not cheap.
You'll need central heating and air here. Really old systems can be easy to replace. TVA and Knoxville Utility Board (the electric company) have a low-interest loan program to replace old HVAC systems with new, energy efficient heat pumps.
In the area you're looking in you'll find other programs to help with the cost of updating systems.

[aquarijen]

Okok, my turn with this post! LOL

I bought one of the "under 50K" gems. Like 10K under 50K...
It was a foreclosure and it is a bungalow like you seek. It is small, but sits on 1/3 acre.

It is on a busy residential street close to a school. It is in South Knoxville.

I looked at about 50 houses to find this one. My agent was very good, negotiated the house price down 20 grand, etc. Overall, A Fantastic experience.

That said, you say you don't "know how to do major stuff". I am skeptical when I hear people *do* know how to do things, but when I hear them say they do not - I believe them the very first time.

This house needed the following and much is in progress:

Extensive asbestos remediation.
Complete repair/removal/refinishing of the hardwood floors throughout (I just bought the 700 feet of oak yesterday - we finally have the bad stuff removed)
ALL NEW PLUMBING
Some electric work
Extensive plaster repair
Rafter ties
New metal roof
Radon seal
floor leveling
lintel posts
window repair or replacement
insulation
chimney rebuilds
rafter tail cosmetic help
attic venting
exterior to be stripped, prepped and repainted
ETC, ETC

Most of these things have to be done while I live in my other house. If I were to hire out all of the work, this would easily add up to $20,000 to $30,000 and if you don't get a construction loan like a 407 rehab loan, it is not going to be financed. And even if you do, then you have to have a plan for how to accomplish this stuff within the time allotted. Decide on materials. Pros and cons of different systems. You can't count on your contractors to know things for you. I've had guys suggest that blowing in insulation is fine for my house - but I have knob and tube wiring above some rooms! To do so would burn down my house... The point is that if you don't know what you are doing and don't have the time and the place to stay during a reno, and if you are not 100% committed to the project and experienced with renovations, you will make a lot of really costly mistakes and mistakes that could potentially affect your health (do you know what asbestos looks like? All the possible kinds? How about Lead? Will you burn your house down the first time you put a fire in that unsafe chimney?).

You might be much better off getting a house that needs just a little paint and varnish and making sure that is all it needs by getting a very thorough home inspection before you purchase.

In addition to the problems with getting an old house in need of reno, the really inexpensive houses really are usually in either just not good neighborhoods, or in downright bad neighborhoods - or on bad streets in good neighborhoods (Fountain City has a few). And your realtor is not ethically allowed to say "NOPE! You don't want this street or that street".
I don't know that I would want to try to do that if I did not live in Knoxville already and kinda already know what was going on in the neighborhoods - afterall - how can *I* say what is "good" or *bad* for you? Me, personally, I don't mind the earthiness or diversity of some areas as much as, say, my Mom. It is the McMansions I avoid.

What I did when I found my house that I thought I wanted (and I did have to move really, really fast --- was I went to the Knoxville city website and looked into the office of neighborhoods and found the corresponding neighborhood for the house and contacted the president. The president put me on the google group for the neighborhood and then I was able to introduce myself, see if I was welcomed (I Was!) and search the archives to get a feel for the people. And I liked them, so I made an offer on the house which they accepted.

So that was a really long story. I hope I don't sound like too much of a hypocrite. Yeah, I got the 40K house, yeah, it looked adorable in its pictures, yeah I like the neighborhood, yeah it needs a LOT of work to make it safely habitable for my family.

-Jennifer

[William Sold]

Jennifer,

It sounds like you've got quite a full plate! Best of luck on your reno's, and we'll expect before and after pictures when you're done. The best thing about refurbishing a house is the ability to have it feel like your own, and dramatically improving the value isn't too bad either. Glad everything worked out for you, it sounds like you've got your priorities straight, and were a very intuitive, responsible buyer with a good end goal in mind. Good luck!

[ButterflyGirl58]

Originally Posted by aquarijen

Okok, my turn with this post! LOL

I bought one of the "under 50K" gems. Like 10K under 50K...
It was a foreclosure and it is a bungalow like you seek. It is small, but sits on 1/3 acre.

It is on a busy residential street close to a school. It is in South Knoxville.

I looked at about 50 houses to find this one. My agent was very good, negotiated the house price down 20 grand, etc. Overall, A Fantastic experience.

That said, you say you don't "know how to do major stuff". I am skeptical when I hear people *do* know how to do things, but when I hear them say they do not - I believe them the very first time.

This house needed the following and much is in progress:

Extensive asbestos remediation.
Complete repair/removal/refinishing of the hardwood floors throughout (I just bought the 700 feet of oak yesterday - we finally have the bad stuff removed)
ALL NEW PLUMBING
Some electric work
Extensive plaster repair
Rafter ties
New metal roof
Radon seal
floor leveling
lintel posts
window repair or replacement
insulation
chimney rebuilds
rafter tail cosmetic help
attic venting
exterior to be stripped, prepped and repainted
ETC, ETC

Most of these things have to be done while I live in my other house. If I were to hire out all of the work, this would easily add up to $20,000 to $30,000 and if you don't get a construction loan like a 407 rehab loan, it is not going to be financed. And even if you do, then you have to have a plan for how to accomplish this stuff within the time allotted. Decide on materials. Pros and cons of different systems. You can't count on your contractors to know things for you. I've had guys suggest that blowing in insulation is fine for my house - but I have knob and tube wiring above some rooms! To do so would burn down my house... The point is that if you don't know what you are doing and don't have the time and the place to stay during a reno, and if you are not 100% committed to the project and experienced with renovations, you will make a lot of really costly mistakes and mistakes that could potentially affect your health (do you know what asbestos looks like? All the possible kinds? How about Lead? Will you burn your house down the first time you put a fire in that unsafe chimney?).

You might be much better off getting a house that needs just a little paint and varnish and making sure that is all it needs by getting a very thorough home inspection before you purchase.

In addition to the problems with getting an old house in need of reno, the really inexpensive houses really are usually in either just not good neighborhoods, or in downright bad neighborhoods - or on bad streets in good neighborhoods (Fountain City has a few). And your realtor is not ethically allowed to say "NOPE! You don't want this street or that street".
I don't know that I would want to try to do that if I did not live in Knoxville already and kinda already know what was going on in the neighborhoods - afterall - how can *I* say what is "good" or *bad* for you? Me, personally, I don't mind the earthiness or diversity of some areas as much as, say, my Mom. It is the McMansions I avoid.

What I did when I found my house that I thought I wanted (and I did have to move really, really fast --- was I went to the Knoxville city website and looked into the office of neighborhoods and found the corresponding neighborhood for the house and contacted the president. The president put me on the google group for the neighborhood and then I was able to introduce myself, see if I was welcomed (I Was!) and search the archives to get a feel for the people. And I liked them, so I made an offer on the house which they accepted.

So that was a really long story. I hope I don't sound like too much of a hypocrite. Yeah, I got the 40K house, yeah, it looked adorable in its pictures, yeah I like the neighborhood, yeah it needs a LOT of work to make it safely habitable for my family.

-Jennifer

Holy Crapola! You've successfully scared me to death, lol! Aren't there general contractors around that are experienced in old house renovation that know that stuff? I've never even heard of some of the things you mentioned. But yes, what I am looking for is something that just needs cosmetic work done. Those are the things I can either do myself or hire someone to do for me. And I would never buy a house without an inspection first. I have bought 3 houses so far in my life and have always had the purchase contingent on inspection.

In your case, with a $40K house and $30K renovation costs - to me that is still one hell of a deal to have the home that you love. There is NOTHING like that around here, believe me.

I'm glad your situation has worked out. I would love to see the pictures. Thanks for sharing your story.

[aquarijen]

The other thing is that for many of these small houses - anything that says "as is, where is" - you can get an inspection and decide not to buy it, but you can't ask for the seller to do anything to the house before purchasing it.
You have to look at the house yourself and know enough about the house to make an offer before your inspection. On these houses, that's tough and you almost have to be an inspector yourself... You have to know what to look for. The houses rarely have the water or electric turned on for you.

There are "deals" like this where you live. My brother lives in Ft. Lauderdale. People are faint of heart with these and rightfully so. I am very glad this is not my first reno. I'd have been in tears already and it could easily turn into a disaster.

When I say 20 to 30K for hiring out the work - I mean just hiring out the labor. Not the contractor and the know-how. Double it for that. And it doesn't count the "nice" and "sweet" things like paint and varnish and a fence, etc. You can literally keep going with a house as far as you want until you run out of money - you have to know when to stop.

It boils down to that a "deal" is more like buying something with some assembly required. The only thing I have hired out so far is the asbestos abatement (for obvious reasons). The only reason this works is because home restoration is a true obsession of mine and my 16 year old son helps and my boyfriend rolls his eyes and helps too.

It needs updating but my website is tinybungalow.com if you want to see some pictures. It is slow going because we work on it only on the weekends. I need to upload more pics. We have gotten a lot farther now.

[creeksitter]

Bwaaahahaaa I love that blog!

I want to join the tinybungalow club! I too am fixing up a tiny bungalow. Can't say restoring that's probably too generous. It is about 900 s.f. with additions but the original house was 624 s.f. not including a bathroom.

I hope you don't mind if I post an excerpt:

" but like some other bungalowners, I was bitten by a bungabug and sort of bungled into this."

[William Sold]

Jennifer,

Nice website! I love user updated sites where you can track the visual progress. You are right on "sold as is" properties. One way to combat these, and we've done a few, is to offer with a contengency of "subject to home inspection and estimated repair costs not to exceed X amount." This obviously lets you move quickly on the property, as flippers are always right around the corner, and have a monetary number in mind that you don't want to exceed on refurbishing. I noticed your jacking up the lintle photos, smart move. Are you leaving the jacks in place, and wrapping with hollow column? It may give a defined entrance appeal, while of course adding the support. Looks great so far and keep up the good work, I love succesful housing reno's (as it raises property values of existing homes by supporting comps), so I'll check your progress as you go.

[JMT]

Originally Posted by ButterflyGirl58

I looked around online a little and saw many, many homes in that area that fit the description I'm looking for. I was able to do the google street view and look at the neighborhoods as well and like JMT says, there are some run-down homes scattered about, but there are a lot of really cute, well-cared for homes that have been restored. I really liked the area.

I have a question about heating. Being from FL, I just have central heat which I rarely even turn on. Some homes I looked at had electric, some gas, some central, some "forced heat" whatever that is, and some had various combinations of all of these. What does this mean in terms of winter heating costs? What should I be looking for?

Another question - why are so many fireplaces sealed up and covered up? And how much can a fireplace help lower heating costs?

And why don't people clean their houses when they are trying to sell them, lol?

I have a fireplace, but it was sealed off and is now a ventless gas fireplace. Holy cow it heats up my house in just seconds. It is wonderful, and I highly recommend you do that if you buy a home with a fireplace. While it's not nearly as romantic as a real wood-burning fireplace, it's a heck of a lot cleaner, warmer, and much more energy efficient.

Gas heat is probably a bit more expensive these days than electric heat. But I cannot stress enough that you will be miserable up here with an electric heat pump. For the life of me, I don't know why people even have that up here. If you're a warm weather Floridian, you will probably want gas heat. With an electric heat pump, the air coming out of the vent will always feel cold. The temp inside your house might be 72, but I swear it'll feel colder. And on those nights when our temps get below 20, you will freeze to death because those electric heat pumps just can't keep up.

Gas heat, however, is completely different. The air comes out of the vents nice and warm. You can stick your hands over it and feel the hot air.

Those are my perceptions, and others might think that electric heat pumps are the best thing since Twinkies. But I promise you, on those nights when you've been outside and the temperature is in the teens, you will be glad to have gas heat!