Considering relocating (Knoxville, Maryville: low crime, neighborhood, elementary school)

[knoxrunner]

I'm posting for so much needed advice....At age 12, I moved from Miami to Knoxville, Tennessee. This was in 1984 and I was still in junior high. For me, Knoxville is a Bible belt college town and Latinos are mostly Mexican. I speak Spanish and am 1/2 Colombian and 1/2 White. The whites are very WASP and seem to look down on dark-haired people (except for Market Square). Stereotypes are in overdrive. I work in rural counties surrounding Knoxville. I am the only minority in the office, period. Rebel flags fly proudly in these counties, and country music is everywhere. Maiking a substantive connection for a long-term relationship seems unlikely. If you don't talk like you're from the sticks, you're seen as a Yankee outsider. It takes twice the work to build trust. The burden is on the outsider. Thus, relationships seem to start on an uneven keel. There are a bunch of families here and just a few prime singles. In winter, it's like a monastary. People shut themselves in and eat, especially corn bread--lots of heavy women here. Single propspects are few. A lot of the single women here have children (do a yahoo personals search if you don't believe me). As for a job, I graduated top of the class and got stuck in a social service job. Liberal educated people seem to be the only ones to really embrace me. A distorted Nationalism/patriotism--ultra conservative--also a kind of covert racism exists. When I have worked with other miniorities (even in social services), they are rarely promoted, and if they are, it seems to be because of tokenism. With that said, I'm longing for Miami or a progressive town. I've felt marginalized for a long time, and want to reconnect with my roots. I've visited Florida and other big cities like Atlanta. It's funny how people seem more open and liberal. It's like instant affinity! Anyone have similar views or suggestion? Thanks!

[sliverbox]

Hello,
Perhaps I could give you an insider's experience from the viewpoint of having been in both stereotypical conservative areas and equally stereotypical liberal ones. I live in California now, considered to be the most "progressive" area in the country. I have been here for 8 years. Honestly, I don't see much of a difference in the day to day living situation here as there. I say this in that they seem to have equal portions of both positive and negative aspects. Bottom line- there are pockets of areas that are generally more 'open' just about everywhere, no matter what state or city. Your perception of what is open is going to be different too.

I'm one of those WASPy kind of guys you refer to as listening to country music ( which I heartily enjoy) and yes- I have a few items with rebel flags on them, not because I am using them to show my racial hatred, but because I like showing my cultural identity. You seem to indicate that by partaking in these things, the person doing so is backwards which would indicate that perhaps you yourself are participating in stereotyping. So you might want to think about what is really bothering you- the kinds of people who live around you, or how you are actually treated.

I live in an area that is primarily Hispanic. Unlike in TN where country music is really popular, mariachi music takes it's place here. If you want good Mexican food, all I do is walk down the street. These people and their culture are different from myself, but I appreciate their love of their own culture because that's sort of what we all do.

As a Southerner living in a city in CA, I'm the minority since hardly anyone here has much in common with my interests nor has the accent, the food tastes, or musical interests. I can understand how you could feel lonely or out of place not being around people like yourself. I can certainly relate. But be careful not confuse racism with cultural difference.

lastly- I'm not so sure moving to a new city will 'fix' everything, especially since Miami is about 3 times more expensive. So just be careful that by attempting to fix one problem, you don't step into another.

[hoosier07]

Sometimes we also need to have a desire to be part of the local culture and integrate ourselves a bit more instead of only complaining. Try to look at things in a different perspective.
I am from another country and was visiting Knoxville 3 times already and had absolutely no problems, actually, everybody was REALLY nice. Unfortunatelly at this point I can NOT agree with your comments. (By the way, I'm from South America)

[knoxrunner]

Your post is enlightening. I appreciate the information. Forgive me, if I seem to be generalizing a bit...I think we all do that from time to time. In my case, I think it's serving a purpose to consider making some changes. It has been difficult for me here. I feel deprived. I sometimes feel isolated eventhough I try like hell to connect with people. Luckily, I have a frame of reference, having lived in Miami and vacationed in a few places. I whole heartedly believe that I need to build upon this information. As you alluded to (and probably one of the reasons you're reading and posting in the TN section), there is a compatibility factor and longing for connectivity. I have more of a community based, inclusive perspective than most people that I'm meeting. Here, I'm just growing tired of being different--sticking out like a soar thumb. Even so, Tennessee is growing more diverse, but has a long way to remove itself from it's roots, which are steeped in religious fundamentalism and racism--which I believe still exists. In the last 10 years, there have been black church burnings here, Knoxville's first minority (ironically a Latino from Miami) fire chief was pressured to resign partly due to racial tensions, a black (former) UT professor issued a law suit for discrimination, and racial tension at Maryville High School. Yes, racism exists, but you are absolutely right about it mainly being a cultural thing.

[JMT]

Originally Posted by knoxrunner

Tennessee is growing more diverse, but has a long way to remove itself from it's roots, which are steeped in religious fundamentalism and racism--which I believe still exists. In the last 10 years, there have been black church burnings here, Knoxville's first minority (ironically a Latino from Miami) fire chief was pressured to resign partly due to racial tensions, a black (former) UT professor issued a law suit for discrimination, and racial tension at Maryville High School. Yes, racism exists, but you are absolutely right about it mainly being a cultural thing.

First of all, to imply that Tennessee's roots are racist is absolutely ludicrous. Tennessee's "racist" past is no different from anywhere else, and that includes Latin America. My black Latino friends tell me that it's almost impossible to date a white Latino back in Mexico. There is a definite class system in much of South America, too, where white citizens give each other preferential treatment while degrade those with darker skin or those from native heritage.

And believe you me, there is just as much racism in Miami as there is in Knoxville, but it's the reverse: it's Latinos who refuse to learn English and who don't serve Anglophone customers in restaurants until they've served their Hispanic clientel. It's the white Anglophones who are on the receiving end of racism. If that's your cup of tea, then so be it. I lived in Miami, too, and I know what I'm talking about.

The UT professor who sued because he didn't get tenure is merely perpetuating nonsense. Heaven forbid that a minority be denied tenure or a promotion. UT has consistently promoted the same percentage of minorities as Caucasians.

I happen to live in a "diverse" neighborhood in Knoxville and love it. There's a Mexican grocery store on one corner, an African American-owned store on another corner, and the neighborhood elementary school is far from being lily white. But that's not why I moved to that neighborhood. I didn't do a racial profile of the neighborhood first before I bought my house. If I lived in an all-white neighborhood, that would be fine. If it were all-black, that would be fine, too. I just looked for a place I could afford that had clean lawns and low crime.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you seem to be the pot calling the kettle black. You bemoan all those people who want to move to Tennessee to be among their "own kind" yet you want to do exactly the same thing by moving to Miami. So apparently there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to be in a less-diverse area as long as that person is not the one in the minority.

[hoosier07]

Thanks JMT for your words, make me feel better that K'ville is exactly how I saw it during the few trips I took there.....and I loved it!

[knoxrunner]

Originally Posted by JMT

First of all, to imply that Tennessee's roots are racist is absolutely ludicrous. Tennessee's "racist" past is no different from anywhere else, and that includes Latin America. My black Latino friends tell me that it's almost impossible to date a white Latino back in Mexico. There is a definite class system in much of South America, too, where white citizens give each other preferential treatment while degrade those with darker skin or those from native heritage.

And believe you me, there is just as much racism in Miami as there is in Knoxville, but it's the reverse: it's Latinos who refuse to learn English and who don't serve Anglophone customers in restaurants until they've served their Hispanic clientel. It's the white Anglophones who are on the receiving end of racism. If that's your cup of tea, then so be it. I lived in Miami, too, and I know what I'm talking about.

The UT professor who sued because he didn't get tenure is merely perpetuating nonsense. Heaven forbid that a minority be denied tenure or a promotion. UT has consistently promoted the same percentage of minorities as Caucasians.

I happen to live in a "diverse" neighborhood in Knoxville and love it. There's a Mexican grocery store on one corner, an African American-owned store on another corner, and the neighborhood elementary school is far from being lily white. But that's not why I moved to that neighborhood. I didn't do a racial profile of the neighborhood first before I bought my house. If I lived in an all-white neighborhood, that would be fine. If it were all-black, that would be fine, too. I just looked for a place I could afford that had clean lawns and low crime.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you seem to be the pot calling the kettle black. You bemoan all those people who want to move to Tennessee to be among their "own kind" yet you want to do exactly the same thing by moving to Miami. So apparently there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to be in a less-diverse area as long as that person is not the one in the minority.

One thing you've helped me notice, people are relectuant to admit they desire to be around their own kind. It's been said that the first of the three "R's" is race not "reading." I guess this is why Miami did not serve you well? Secondly, I understand that in Miami there is tension between various Latino ethnic groups. Thirdly, I've found that there is a lack of understanding of what it really means to shoulder a bi-cultural ethnicty. I have to be cognizant of the issues you mentioned in Miami. For example, since my Spanish is non-native, I might not be served first. In Knoxville, I might not get the recognition that I deserve because of my skin color. I can assure you that if we met and I explained what I've been through because of my race...you'd be in tears. My quest is to find a community that really appreciates diversity and sees value in it. There are lots of folks and institutions that appease their conscious by claiming to be accepting of diveristy. When the rubber hits the road for folks who are not well traveled (unlike you), it is much harder to see beyond the stereotypes. For over 20 years, I've lived in Knoxville and also worked as a social work in rural counties. I've experienced enough suffering and want to connect to my roots. I want to find role models who actually understand the challenges facing bi-cultural individuals. Also, I don't want to have to think about my race. It would be nice just to blend in. Knoxville has facilitated verry little of this. I wish it were different for me, but this has been my reality.

[Git2know]

Newsflash...everyone is not like you.
You are always talking about "diversity" yet you keep talking about such things like if someone happens to be white, likes collage football, lives in a rural area, is a Christian, is a conservative....they must automatically be a racist. Where is all of YOUR tolerance of other cultures?
If people of the same race like to congregate together are they automatically racist? If so,
what does that say about all the churches that are all black?

If you are black and study your heritage and are proud of where you came from that is ok...
But if I do the same I'm a white supremist?...so ignorant, so narrow minded.
What a crock of (*^*&...... Grow up and get a grip man.
Sounds like you want all the "diversity" to flow your way and don't want to give any of it back.

[sliverbox]

Knoxrunner,
I'm starting to think that perhaps you do need to movie to Miami, or anywhere else for that matter. Moving around is good for people. It can help you see things from a kind of No-BS kind of perspective. I can honestly attest that I have come full circle in a 10 year period. Im some ways I can relate to you from feelings I had when I was also about your age, when I felt that Knoxville was just a dumpy little town full of rednecks and good-ole'-boys. I moved around a lot, experienced countless cultures, food, music, lifestyles, and opinion.

For awhile it was all wonderful and exciting. But after 10 years of this, I began to wonder what was missing. It was then that I realized that you know what?- knoxville wasn't all that bad really. People werre actually pretty nice, and even though it might not have the same level of diversity, I'd put money on it that if you break down on the side of the freeway there, someone will pull over to help.

You'll come to realize that people everywhere behave in just about the same manner and the friends you make wherever you live form your world and perceptions. You can make friends anywhere.

Again- change can be ab educating experience for people. Perhaps it would be worth a try for you.

[knoxrunner]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

Knoxrunner,
I'm starting to think that perhaps you do need to movie to Miami, or anywhere else for that matter. Moving around is good for people. It can help you see things from a kind of No-BS kind of perspective. I can honestly attest that I have come full circle in a 10 year period. Im some ways I can relate to you from feelings I had when I was also about your age, when I felt that Knoxville was just a dumpy little town full of rednecks and good-ole'-boys. I moved around a lot, experienced countless cultures, food, music, lifestyles, and opinion.

For awhile it was all wonderful and exciting. But after 10 years of this, I began to wonder what was missing. It was then that I realized that you know what?- knoxville wasn't all that bad really. People werre actually pretty nice, and even though it might not have the same level of diversity, I'd put money on it that if you break down on the side of the freeway there, someone will pull over to help.

You'll come to realize that people everywhere behave in just about the same manner and the friends you make wherever you live form your world and perceptions. You can make friends anywhere.

Again- change can be ab educating experience for people. Perhaps it would be worth a try for you.

You know, I guess you visit this forum often because you identify with Knoxville. Good for you. I respect your identity needs. People just like to be treated with dignity and feel safe. However, you are incorrect in your hint that I need to be educated about relationships and regions. Also, I shouldn't feel compelled to move because of race issues. I'm a law-abiding American who pays my taxes and served in the military. Earlier in the thread, another person suggested I did not understand about Tennessee's white supremacist movement (KKK) roots are still here. Okay, here are the facts regarding this weekend's white supremacist rally and arrest in downtown Knoxville:

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=45634