Dia de los Muertos... (kids, drive, closest)

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by tomasvzqz

tecpatl, I agree with you 100%. More than the place, the people and heir heartfelt customs are what make this holiday special for Mexicans. Even here in Chicago, where there are over 1 milliion Mexicans, they have a really great celebration and touching displays during this holiday in the neighborhood of La Villita, which is where most Mexicans have settled.
By the way, what does tecpatl stand for? is it a Nahuatl word for something? I'm very intrigued by the Nauatl language.

Ayyy Tomas....the celebrations in Chicago are a perfect example of what I was talking about. Is it the same as Oaxaca? No, of course not..why would it be? It's Chee ca go!
But the essence, the core, the soul of the celebration IS the same...just expressed in a different way, a uniquely Chicago way. I've attended Day of the Dead feasts in Pilsen....and while I found it amusing to see that a neighborhood named by Central European immigrants has seen a transition to Mexican immigrants, I just loved the idea and the reality that Day of the Dead was being celebrated there in a traditional way. To the Poles and Czechs of years past, it was All Souls Day/All Saints Day....it's just different now, but equally important in all kinds of ways. I also saw pierogis sitting on altars with bottles of Pilsner Urquell and glasses of Slivovitz
The name Tecpatl is one that was given to me by an esteemed friend in Mexico many years ago. It literally translates as Flint blade or flint knife, and is a day sign in the 20 day monthly calendar, a day customarily seen as one of testing, of character, commitment and intelligence..a challenge. The flint blade was the first true technological tool of man, and one that cuts to the bone, the core, the center of truth and reality.
Plus, I collect ancient stone tools and Pre-Columbian jewelry .
The more high-minded aspects of that name are things I certainly aspire to, but I use the name mostly to honor the memory of my wise and dear departed friend, Cuauhtemoc, and his Nahua culture.

[tecpatl]

Tomas...let me suggest a book to you. A Scattering of Jades, edited by TJ Knab and translated from the Nahuatl by the late Thelma Sullivan. I met Thelma via our mutual friend, Doris Heyden, in Mexico City many years ago when my wife was staying at Doris's home until I could fly down to meet her. She was a fascinating woman (as was Doris) and her knowledge of the Nahua/Mexica language, culture and history was among the best in the world. Late I met TJ, a fellow chef/owner of a restaurant who worked with and learned from Thelma in the course of his PhD in Anthropology. After Thelma's death in 81 or 82 he kept on with her work, using her extensive library of notes, to complete this book in her memory.
The upshot of all this obscure name-dropping is to point you to this book...a wonderful translation and interpretation of Aztec culture, philosophy and art. Find it, read it, and you'll likely treasure it as I have. An eye-opener, for sure. It' a Simon/Schuster Touchstone book, published in 1994, and might take a while to find. Given your interest, it's worth it.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

We don't disagree, malamute, that the centuries-old traditions on view throughout Mexico during Dia de Los Muertos is a wonderful thing to see, but that doesn't mean that the varied and evolving DDLM celebrations that occur in NM and elsewhere in the USA are somehow corrupt or make-believe. They're just different, as is every celebration or custom that travels with people when they make their way through the world. Perhaps not as old, not as colorful or universally celebrated as in Oaxaca or elsewhere, but still a worthy event.
Most Americans will never set foot in Mexico, much less make the trek to Patzcuaro or Oaxaca, to see the colorful and heartfelt celebrations and ceremonies that go on all night long, the scents of cooking food, marigolds and copal incense filling the air, etc. that you and have been lucky enough to experience. But that's no reason not to see or participate or learn about DDLM. I always recommend that the curious visit La Mesilla during the celebration to get a little glimpse of an ancient and fascinating custom.

Except that the celebration in La Mesilla isn't ancient at all, it's quite new. The Aztecs didn't exist in Las Cruces.

It's only a bus trip away to see the real thing, in the region that this culture existed. Dia de los Muertos was never much in the northern Mexican states, and to see the real thing you need to see it in the south.

It's really something to see. The big gold marigolds, the Indians decorating the cemetary, and preparing for their night at the cemetary. Why deprive yourselves of the real thing and think you've really seen it by staying inside the USA? It's not the same thing. I've experienced both myself and the USA one just looks like another day for people to sell something -- another commercial opportunity. You can get on a bus or a train or even a plane and see the authentic thing.

In the areas that celebrate the traditional day of the dead, outsiders only observe. All you do is watch, your participation is not wanted or expected. Most Americans who won't step foot into Mexico will never really be able to say they know anything about Mexico or it's holidays by pretending to experience them here.

[tecpatl]

Oh, Geez Malamute...do we need to go to China to get good Chinese food? (Well, you DO have to leave Las Cruces, that's for sure!)
I completely agree that people should visit Mexico to experience DOTD (among other wonderful things)...but NOT going doesn't mean that any experience with the Holiday in the US is pointless or fake. I've seen DOTD in a few of the best places in Mexico, but that doesn't mean I HAVE to go there to enjoy an hour or three in Mesilla plaza or elsewhere, seeing the tradition grow and change. Change is ok...it's human, it's inevitable.
Just a couple hours south of the border is the ruined city called Paquime or Casas Grandes. Maybe you've visited there? It's the Northern outpost of the great Meso-American cultures (including Aztec/Mexica) far to the South.
It was a trading city, where the wide-ranging Pochteca (highly organized traveling Aztec merchants) set out to areas farther North, certainly passing thru the Mesilla Valley, in their search for markets for rare goods carried on their backs, and for goods (like New Mexican turquoise) to take back South. How do you suppose the ancient people up here got so in love with Macaw feathers? There's evidence that the birds were brought up from South Mexico and bred in Paquime, in addition to the bundles of feathers being carried up here to trade.
They have been here...and for a long time, not that that's germane to a Day of the Dead discussion.
Some anthropologists have even made the case that the Mexica/Aztec people actually migrated South (true to their legends of origin in Aztlan, the North Place) from what's now the American Southwest and found refuge on the crummy marshland now known as Mexico City. I don't think that's likely, but it's interesting. If they DID do this, they went South as poor, crude, primitive people and returned as sophisticated Masters of their Universe, with loads of goodies to barter with the locals they left behind generations earlier.

[tomasvzqz]

tecpatl, thanks for the book suggestion, I just ordered it from Amazon! Also, thanks for the explanation on your screenname. Very interesting.

You are so right about the celebrations in Pilsen (you get around!). It is so true about the Pierogi and other eastern european traditional foods being included in the DDLM shrines! Very cool.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by tomasvzqz

tecpatl, thanks for the book suggestion, I just ordered it from Amazon! Also, thanks for the explanation on your screenname. Very interesting.

You are so right about the celebrations in Pilsen (you get around!). It is so true about the Pierogi and other eastern european traditional foods being included in the DDLM shrines! Very cool.

Yeah...you won't see pierogi and kielbasa in Patzcuaro...
I hope you like the book. I'm still a part-time, life-long Michigander, so I've spent a lot of time in Chicago...one of my favorite cities.
When I'm there I make a pilgrimage to Frontera Grill/Topolobampo to see Rick Bayless and chow down on some of the absolute best genuine Mexican food anywhere in the world. His place would be a great restaurant even in Mexico City, Guadalajara or Oaxaca. Make a visit if you haven't already.

[tomasvzqz]

Oh, I do try to go to Frontera/Topolobampo every chance I get (I work a few blocks away in the Loop). However, it is extremely difficult to get into either one of the restaurants, as I'm sure you know. Frontera is easier since it's the more casual of the two, but Topolobampo...I've had to make reservations months ahead!! But the food is totally worth it. Bayless is an amazing chef.

Originally Posted by tecpatl

Yeah...you won't see pierogi and kielbasa in Patzcuaro...
I hope you like the book. I'm still a part-time, life-long Michigander, so I've spent a lot of time in Chicago...one of my favorite cities.
When I'm there I make a pilgrimage to Frontera Grill/Topolobampo to see Rick Bayless and chow down on some of the absolute best genuine Mexican food anywhere in the world. His place would be a great restaurant even in Mexico City, Guadalajara or Oaxaca. Make a visit if you haven't already.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by tomasvzqz

Oh, I do try to go to Frontera/Topolobampo every chance I get (I work a few blocks away in the Loop). However, it is extremely difficult to get into either one of the restaurants, as I'm sure you know. Frontera is easier since it's the more casual of the two, but Topolobampo...I've had to make reservations months ahead!! But the food is totally worth it. Bayless is an amazing chef.

Most people in the Southwest would have a hard time believing that one of the greatest Mexican restaurants in the world is in Chicago, but we both know it is so.

[ziaAirmac]

Interesting discussion you guys are having. While I think it's important to understand the origination of rituals and celebrations, I think most people have to grow it into something different at some point for the thing to perpetuate. New Mexico is thick with traditions and art that were really a remanent of what was in Spain or passed from other tribes, transformed through memory and created with the raw materials available here. And the 'here' is what's key. The point is that although we can all understand and honor the original tradition, we can't all pick up and go there to enjoy it. I would have loved for my daughters to watch the actual ceremony. As it is, I was lucky to get them across town. It still made for a great time for me to share with them. I was up on stage with my two year old dancing to the live drums. First time she ever held my hands and danced like that to live music. Sure, one day they'll be old enough we can start talking about the traditions and symbolism. Anyway, at the risk of showing a bad interpretation of an amazing ceremony, here's a link to pictures I took in Albuquerque's south valley:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/albuq...s-muertos.html

[tecpatl]

ziaAirmac, Very cool...thanks! Day of the Dead with a car show.... I love it! Traditions always change, as people, places and cultures change, and that was my point in earlier posts. Maybe some day your daughter, driven by the great memories of dancin' with Dad on skeleton day, will visit Oaxaca or Patzcuaro and see the holiday closest to it's origins. Maybe (hopefully a long, long time from now) she'll be putting your picture and your favorite drink on an ofrenda for you and remembering her wonderful Dad...who knows? Traditions always change and adapt, but the essential core remains intact.