Leaving Las Cruces (Santa Fe, Ruidoso, Mesilla: appointed, rent, houses)

[ibarrio]

Originally Posted by fnord

Agreed, but the Downtown Mall is more or less a laughing stock amongst everyone who lives here. The city planners totally ruined what was once a lively center of commerce and the downtown core has been abandoned since the early 1970s. The root of the problem is the average person just doesn't care because there's a Walmart down the street, so they just go there. Walmart doesn't care either - they're making a fortune with the lure of their cheap products and cheap prices.

There's no misunderstanding here. Local attitudes and interests have proven that having a "charming little walking mall downtown" is less important than having a 100,000 sq ft retail box that crushes community commerce. That's just my observation, and change happens all the time.

It is not the local culture...it is the general culture of the West. The I want it now attitude...The bigger is better attitude. Look at L.A, Las Vegas and Phoenix and tell me if they have great downtown areas? Las Cruces is not alone in having a dead downtown...

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by ibarrio

It is not the local culture...it is the general culture of the West. The I want it now attitude...The bigger is better attitude. Look at L.A, Las Vegas and Phoenix and tell me if they have great downtown areas? Las Cruces is not alone in having a dead downtown...

Ibarrio,

I'd say with the exception of some older suburbs in New England and Pacific NW, the scenario you painted is the national rule, rather than the exception.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by ibarrio

It is not the local culture...it is the general culture of the West. The I want it now attitude...The bigger is better attitude. Look at L.A, Las Vegas and Phoenix and tell me if they have great downtown areas? Las Cruces is not alone in having a dead downtown...

A lot of what you say is true, ibarrrio, but, thank God, there are many exceptions. Albuquerque is one, and a relatively recent thing. Downtown Burque used to be a shabby hole, but it's lively and getting better all the time. It's a happening place. People yearn for a place with a soul, not just the cookie cutter creation that could be Anywhere USA.
In the summer I live in my old tiny hometown in NW Michigan. The nearest "big" town, Traverse City, is 20 miles away and is smaller (40 thousand) than Las Cruces. It had a downtown that was dying on the vine..big new malls had opened, there were vacant storefronts, vagrants crawling around, all that stuff.
But, very importantly, the longtime merchants fought the urban renewal that decimated LC downtown. They said heck no...we've got something special here. Then people went to work, creating economic zones, a downtown assn. a streetscape plan, on and on. Now, this downtown is bustling year round in a huge way. The theater reopened after 12 years, and hosts a very successful film festival produced by Michigan filmmaker Michael Moore. (no, he doesn't show his own films) Take the time to look at this downtown promo video. This could be Las Cruces. It'll take time, money and hard work. But its very possible, very do-able, and it works.
YouTube - Downtown Traverse City

[davbetcoo]

Just a thought from a former LC resident (as a student) and later frequent visitor -

The problem with the downtown mall was not so much the concept, but more the execution. They never considered the residential aspect. For a place like that to make it you have to have people living close by that will gather and shop in the area.

Instead it was developed so that traffic could flow around it at high speeds - so the few people that actually did live in the area were cut off from walking to it, and it was never pedestrian friendly. It's actually a great place to gather - especially with LC's great weather, but few people are going to drive there just to walk around and enjoy the peaceful surroundings.

I have seen where they have residences planned for the new developments in that area - hopefully that will happen.

[tecpatl]

You're so right, Davbetcoo...it was a not very good idea to begin with, done very badly. A resident population is necessary for a vibrant downtown.

[fnord]

Originally Posted by davbetcoo

Instead it was developed so that traffic could flow around it at high speeds - so the few people that actually did live in the area were cut off from walking to it, and it was never pedestrian friendly.

No kidding. Just trying to cross the racetrack to actually get into the "pedestrian mall" is a challenge. I could stand at a crosswalk forever and cars do not stop (as they legally should). So I wait for a break in traffic and run for it. But once you're in the Mall, it's serenity!

If some cute little apartments or studios were built in some of the 2-story buildings running along the Mall - NOT "luxury condos" - it might take off. I'd consider moving into one myself, provided the rent wasn't a ridiculous $800/mo for a studio.

I do foresee a prosperous future for the Mall. In 10 years I think it's going to look very different, once enough transplants have moved into the area. It definitely has promise.

[tecpatl]

fnord, did you take the time to peek at the video link I posted about Traverse City? What you see in that promo vid is a downtown that was much like LC at one time. Doesn't look anything, anything like it now, all because of changes in the approach to what a downtown is. It's now a cool, hip place to be. One large component there was a mix of reasonably priced condo/apartments and luxe units with lake view, a well as nearby neighborhoods that also blossomed when downtown became more interesting. A mix is what's magic in that.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by tecpatl

fnord, did you take the time to peek at the video link I posted about Traverse City? What you see in that promo vid is a downtown that was much like LC at one time. Doesn't look anything, anything like it now, all because of changes in the approach to what a downtown is. It's now a cool, hip place to be. One large component there was a mix of reasonably priced condo/apartments and luxe units with lake view, a well as nearby neighborhoods that also blossomed when downtown became more interesting. A mix is what's magic in that.

I think that the advantage Traverse City has over Las Cruces is that Traverse City would be more on the order of Ruidoso where people go for a weekend trip or their two week vacation, change of scenery, change of climate.

It's nice to have a cool downtown with all kinds of shops for tourists -- but you have to have tourists or some where to get them from. The tourists come to get away, they go to Traverse City for it's bay and beaches which helped create it's resort flavor. I don't think it's the locals that do all that much shopping in those stores.

I don't know where Las Cruces would find it's tourists or way to become resort-like, enticing people to drive 3-5 hours to come and spend a few days and a lot of money.

[mike0421]

Originally Posted by malamute

I think that the advantage Traverse City has over Las Cruces is that Traverse City would be more on the order of Ruidoso where people go for a weekend trip or their two week vacation, change of scenery, change of climate.

It's nice to have a cool downtown with all kinds of shops for tourists -- but you have to have tourists or some where to get them from. The tourists come to get away, they go to Traverse City for it's bay and beaches which helped create it's resort flavor. I don't think it's the locals that do all that much shopping in those stores.

I don't know where Las Cruces would find it's tourists or way to become resort-like, enticing people to drive 3-5 hours to come and spend a few days and a lot of money.

Excellent points Malamute. There really is no enticing reason to come here, short term, the way there is in Ruidoso or Traverse City. Ruidoso has mountains and as you said, a break from the heat. Traverse City has water. Las Cruces has, well, nothing. It's more of a place to live than it is to visit.

[tecpatl]

Originally Posted by malamute

I think that the advantage Traverse City has over Las Cruces is that Traverse City would be more on the order of Ruidoso where people go for a weekend trip or their two week vacation, change of scenery, change of climate.

It's nice to have a cool downtown with all kinds of shops for tourists -- but you have to have tourists or some where to get them from. The tourists come to get away, they go to Traverse City for it's bay and beaches which helped create it's resort flavor. I don't think it's the locals that do all that much shopping in those stores.

I don't know where Las Cruces would find it's tourists or way to become resort-like, enticing people to drive 3-5 hours to come and spend a few days and a lot of money.

The clip I posted was done by a downtown assn, and certainly focused on tourism, so it's natural that you'd see it as a primarily tourist area. But understand also that from early October thru the end of May tourism isn't much of a factor there at all, and what you see in the vid is mid-summer, when tourism is at it's peak. Regional shopping and entertainment IS what makes that town prosper year round and tourism is an important boost during the summer season.
I was in TC yesterday doing some business before heading back to Mesilla (can't wait to get back!), it was snowing like crazy (over 40 inches so far this winter) and the streets were still busy with local people Christmas shopping, dining, going to the movie, whatever. A downtown based on tourism would be pretty bleak right about now, especially in the Michigan depression.
Tourism does help an area and a small town like TC, there is no doubt. Why else would a little pueblo like Mesilla have so many restaurants and shops? All patronized by local folks, no doubt, but also there to attract and serve the visitor.
When tourists are in Southern New Mexico or Westernmost Texas, or just on their way to Tucson or LA or Santa Fe, where is a natural stop for them? The Crossroads, my friends....right in LC! How many thousands of tourists and potential visitors zip thru on 25 and 10 every day? But, right now, when they stop, what do they see? The same malls with the same chain shops and restaurants they have at home. Big deal...can see that at home, or anywhere else for that matter. If they go downtown to visit a museum or whatever, it probably scares and/or depresses them.
There are strengths in LC. Unless you want to ski or gamble, Ruidoso is pretty cold right now, where LC is still temperate. LC is on the Camino Real, one of the earliest European trade routes in the USA, it has a great mix of cultures, with music, food, art, architecture, on and on. It's in a beautiful river valley. It's up to LC to find it's strengths and grow them..nourish and develop them. I think that's underway, starting with the reopening of Main St. etc. but it will take time and strong support from local people and organizations. People have to discover their pride in Las Cruces.
Traverse City did this by tearing down factories and warehouses and a huge power plant that lined the lakefront and creating a park system in that area. They saw one of their strengths, developed it, and it looks great now. It's major attraction in the summer. The downtown had wonderful old buildings that had been covered over in a stupid attempt to modernize in the 50s and 60s (sound familiar?), and gradually those buildings are being restored as they were originally. When you walk down that main st. you know where you are... it's not a cookie cutter mall in Anywhere USA, and local entrepreneurs operate the vast majority of those storefronts and restaurants. (By the way, the nearest freeway is over 40 miles away.)
I posted the video thing just to show that it can be done.