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Unread 11-10-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,552 posts, read 8,418,726 times
Reputation: 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino
The Las Cruces to El Paso route would not require new tracks, ...
In order to run passenger trains, the tracks would need to be upgraded.
I think the Las Cruces <---> El Paso section is already an Amtrak route.

In order for people to really want to use the Railrunner for such long distances,
all the lines - including the Amtrak lines - need to be good for, at least 90 mph IMO.

The big cost running to Santa Fe, was not the upgrade since much of that line already had Amrak
passenger service, but carving out an entirely new route which included freeway over/under stuff.

It would probably be cheaper to run the Railrunner to Las Cruces than it was to run it to Santa Fe for that reason.

Again, whatever the cost is, it should be included along with operating costs.

Anything the state spends on it is effectively borrowed and the interest costs run forever and ever.

I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm against not accounting for all the costs - publicly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino
... widening, and maintaining toll-free highways isn't cheap either. ...
I'm for that too.

I'm for it and paying for it with a gasoline tax increase.

If people aren't for it ( the tax ), then let them drive crappy roads that wear out
their cars and let them have to put up with slow drivers that they can't get around.

Last edited by mortimer; 11-10-2010 at 02:51 PM..
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Unread 11-11-2010, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
2,783 posts, read 3,783,912 times
Reputation: 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
Congressman Teague is no longer in office.
Not to nit-pick, but Teague will continue to be in office (as a lame duck) until the next congress convenes in January 2011.
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Unread 11-11-2010, 09:48 AM
 
Location: New Mexico USA
15,827 posts, read 14,831,300 times
Reputation: 15881
Yes, I jumped the gun, I was incorrect, I could/should have said Teague was not re-elected, his term in office ends January, 2011.


Rich

Last edited by Poncho_NM; 11-11-2010 at 06:45 PM..
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Unread 11-11-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Fe
731 posts, read 941,843 times
Reputation: 569
And what will be the number of riders? Tens of thousands of people commute between Belen, Los Lunas, Albuquerque, Bernalillo and Santa Fe. That is what the RailRunner is, a commuter train. Running from up north to LC is crazy. Sorry, but especially with the change in administration, it's not going to happen. I'll be surprised if Martinez doesn't insist on cutting back service.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
2,783 posts, read 3,783,912 times
Reputation: 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by loborick View Post
And what will be the number of riders? Tens of thousands of people commute between Belen, Los Lunas, Albuquerque, Bernalillo and Santa Fe. That is what the RailRunner is, a commuter train. Running from up north to LC is crazy.
Why is it crazy? If you want to take Amtrak from Albuquerque to Las Cruces, you have to connect one or two time zones away. Greyhound and Mexibuses get plenty of passengers in that corridor. The tracks are there, and you'd be amazed how many people make that run at least weekly in their cars (NMSU college students, extreme commuters, etc.). Socorro and T or C have their own fair share of extreme commuters too.

To boot, BNSF would probably love to dump that stretch of track from their portfolio as well; given that it's a headache they don't want to deal with, it'd probably cost less than half what the NMRX purchased from Belen on north, and far less than the cost of building the Santa Fe extension.

Quote:
Sorry, but especially with the change in administration, it's not going to happen. I'll be surprised if Martinez doesn't insist on cutting back service.
It'll only surprise me if it's losing money in excess of expectations. At last count, it had a budget surplus. That's when certain politicians like to cut programs; when they're actually working and exceeding expectations.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,552 posts, read 8,418,726 times
Reputation: 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg
At last count, it had a budget surplus.
The surplus is due to the Federal subsidy. There is an operating deficit.

Of course, if the true cost of the Railrunner were being used,
even with the subsidy, there would be a huge deficit.

For instance, Intel would be a much more profitable company ( on paper )
if they simply ignored the cost of building a factory and only counted the
operating costs. That's what the Railrunner is doing. Like I said, it's the
funkymonkey solar panel accounting method.

It's good math and bad accounting.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
13,290 posts, read 5,930,960 times
Reputation: 5327
Quote:
Originally Posted by loborick View Post
And what will be the number of riders? Tens of thousands of people commute between Belen, Los Lunas, Albuquerque, Bernalillo and Santa Fe. That is what the RailRunner is, a commuter train. Running from up north to LC is crazy. Sorry, but especially with the change in administration, it's not going to happen. I'll be surprised if Martinez doesn't insist on cutting back service.
Originally there was talk of connecting El Paso/Las Cruces/ABQ/Denver mirroring the I-10 and I-25 corridors, however, the current plan, as I understand it, only involves Las Cruces and El Paso and perhaps the Space Port.

That being said, why would connecting LC to ABQ be crazy? I would love to be able to travel up to ABQ, and beyond, via train. There are a lot of people who regularly make that trip for health, business, entertainment reasons, etc. I would also love to have the option of flying into/out of the Sunport without having to drive to get there and back.
Personally, I think that there is more demand than people may realize and it will only continue to grow as more people move to and/or visit the region.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,552 posts, read 8,418,726 times
Reputation: 2415
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerLily24
That being said, why would connecting LC to ABQ be crazy?
I don't think it's crazy.

I think a rail line running from Cheyenne to El Paso would be great.
The part inside Belen-Bernalillo would be a commuter bit.

After that, you have to find out how many people would use such a thing. People
might go for $20, but not $100. The cost per seat might be that high - or higher.

What I think is : that not being honest about what such stuff costs is crazy.
Everywhere else in the world where they have such things they pay for it with
taxes on gasoline and their prices at the pump are as high as $10 right now.

If you could drive your car to the station, onto a train car that holds automobiles,
more people might use it, but it would be much more expensive. When gasoline is
$10/gallon wholesale it might be practical. -- It will get there some day.

Unfortunately, paying for such a thing with a gasoline tax when the wholesale price is
already $10 and the other portion of the gas tax might be $1 would be really difficult.

Ramming a project like that down the throats of the citizens without
adequate funding -- like the Railrunner was -- is really really crazy.
Voters have the right to say in this. Just saying that the citizens are
too stupid to appreciate such a thing is also really really crazy.

They have a right to say "no" to such things. Too bad so sad for rail
weenies of which I am one. If you don't like democracy China is
building some nice trains these days - ironically with some of our money.
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Unread 11-12-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
13,290 posts, read 5,930,960 times
Reputation: 5327
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
I don't think it's crazy.

I think a rail line running from Cheyenne to El Paso would be great.
The part inside Belen-Bernalillo would be a commuter bit.

After that, you have to find out how many people would use such a thing. People
might go for $20, but not $100. The cost per seat might be that high - or higher.

What I think is : that not being honest about what such stuff costs is crazy.
Everywhere else in the world where they have such things they pay for it with
taxes on gasoline and their prices at the pump are as high as $10 right now.

If you could drive your car to the station, onto a train car that holds automobiles,
more people might use it, but it would be much more expensive. When gasoline is
$10/gallon wholesale it might be practical. -- It will get there some day.

Unfortunately, paying for such a thing with a gasoline tax when the wholesale price is
already $10 and the other portion of the gas tax might be $1 would be really difficult.

Ramming a project like that down the throats of the citizens without
adequate funding -- like the Railrunner was -- is really really crazy.
Voters have the right to say in this. Just saying that the citizens are
too stupid to appreciate such a thing is also really really crazy.

They have a right to say "no" to such things. Too bad so sad for rail
weenies of which I am one. If you don't like democracy China is
building some nice trains these days - ironically with some of our money.


I was thrilled when they started running a bus from LC to El Paso and, if that's all we get for the foreseeable future, so be it. At least it is an acknowledgement that not every wants to, or can, drive between two western cities despite all messaging to the contrary.

I was reading a week or so ago about the new bridge just north of the Hoover Dam and I was thinking how amazing it is that something like that got built in this day and age when all we hear about is how we just can't afford to do things like that anymore. The reality is that we could, if we really wanted to, we just choose to spend the money on other stuff.
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Unread 11-13-2010, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
795 posts, read 1,026,630 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
That's because they use the funkymonkey accounting method:

Just mention the initial build cost, but don't actually account for it in any way.

The $500 million or so to build it, needs to be accounted for, but
governments don't really use GAAP when accounting for capital items.

If a corporation ( other than a big bank, of course ) used
such accounting methods, people would go to jail for fraud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
The surplus is due to the Federal subsidy. There is an operating deficit.

Of course, if the true cost of the Railrunner were being used,
even with the subsidy, there would be a huge deficit.

For instance, Intel would be a much more profitable company ( on paper )
if they simply ignored the cost of building a factory and only counted the
operating costs. That's what the Railrunner is doing. Like I said, it's the
funkymonkey solar panel accounting method.

It's good math and bad accounting.
WHy are you being a jerk? I admitted my mistake on the math, there is no "funky monkey" accounting method.

Go **** yourself.

Last edited by funkymonkey; 11-13-2010 at 12:49 AM.. Reason: syntax
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