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Old 10-09-2011, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,635,351 times
Reputation: 8987

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Quote:
Originally Posted by von949 View Post
What are some of your tips for getting by without gasoline? Propane? Wind power? Solar?

Do you own a car? Kids?
Methane. CNG is currently $2.50/gallon (equivalent -- it's sold by the pound).
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
542 posts, read 818,774 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA702 View Post
I have a flex fuel f150 and it gets terrible mileage when I use E85. I get 15-16 city / 19-21 highway with reg 87, and 11-12 city/ 15-16 highway with E85. I know the ECM uses a different fuel map when you put gasoline or E85 and maybe that is one of the reasons it doesn't get the optimuIm mileage it should.
That's about right. Its 3-4mpg difference.


The fuel maps aren't the only problem. Its the timing maps. You can run a lot more timing with ethanol to help recoup the lost efficiency. Earlier flexfuel cars didn't have changes made to the e85 timing. Newer flex vehicles do a lot better. They not only modify the timing, but they also do lean burn. Simply injecting less fuel into the engine works great for e85, but will ruin a gas engine. Ethanol is much more flexible.


Also, because your pickup is a flex fuel vehicle, you could "modify" the engine mapping to increase your mileage, without any cost at all to emissions (obviously, only when you're running e85). You could lean out the fuel, and increase timing. The cost to you would be a few hundred dollars for the emulator, but with the savings in fuel, you would recoup the cost eventually.



If you'd like to know more, we should probably talk through PM or email..... We've already crashed this thread, but it could be salvaged back to its former "Vegas Jobs" glory
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:16 PM
 
2,509 posts, read 3,734,278 times
Reputation: 2180
Quote:
Originally Posted by m73m95 View Post
Did you bump your head or something? ^^

How can it be that before yesterday, I agreed with almost nothing you said....then all of a sudden you make great sense???

Who me? Yea, I fell down the stairs yesterday.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
542 posts, read 818,774 times
Reputation: 375
Hahahahaha
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,635,351 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by m73m95 View Post
Sugar is sugar. It doesn't matter if its from cane, or corn, or beets, or alge, or grass clippings.


That's like saying Rum is a better alcohol because it comes from molasses, but whiskey sucks because its just from corn.....

Corn is used because the US has a HUGE surplus of corn. The state of Iowa has enough corn to feed the entire United States....yet, just about every single mid-west state grows it. We give away (as in, for free) more corn to 3rd world countries than we consume ourselves. THAT is why corn is used in making ethanol for motor fuel.

The US has a HUGE surplus of corn, because we subsidize the [CENSORED] out of it. Subsidized corn is one of the BIG problems in the US today. Subsidized corn is the root of so many US problems -- obesity, toxic farming practices, and yes, oil dependence. It takes a LOT of oil to grow the corn to turn it into fuel.

If we quit subsidizing corn, many problems would simply vanish. But there wouldn't be a dollar menu at McDonald's anymore.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
542 posts, read 818,774 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Methane. CNG is currently $2.50/gallon (equivalent -- it's sold by the pound).
Good ol' Wikipedia..

Quote:
The National Conference of Weights & Measurements (NCWM) has developed a standard unit of measurement for compressed natural gas, defined in the NIST Handbook 44 Appendix D as follows: "1 Gasoline [US] gallon equivalent (GGE) means 2.567 kg (5.660 lb) of natural gas
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
542 posts, read 818,774 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
The US has a HUGE surplus of corn, because we subsidize the [CENSORED] out of it. Subsidized corn is one of the BIG problems in the US today. Subsidized corn is the root of so many US problems -- obesity, toxic farming practices, and yes, oil dependence. It takes a LOT of oil to grow the corn to turn it into fuel.

If we quit subsidizing corn, many problems would simply vanish. But there wouldn't be a dollar menu at McDonald's anymore.
Actually, the subsidy on corn for fuel was taken out with the "debt ceiling" deal. That's why e85 stays above $3/gallon when gasoline prices are coming down.


HOWEVER.... Everything that grows in this country is subsidized. Including tobacco. AND oil companies are heavily subsidized through tax breaks.

Tax Breaks for Oil Companies: Good for Business or Unfair Advantage? | PBS NewsHour | May 12, 2011 | PBS
Oil Companies Reap Billions From Subsidies - NYTimes.com

AND....before you go any further

Proposed energy bill provides almost $4B in subsidies for natural gas vehicles | WorldCNG (http://www.worldcng.com/2010/08/04/proposed-energy-bill-provides-almost-4b-in-subsidies-for-natural-gas-vehicles/ - broken link)

Are subsidies for CNG any different than e85? Other than oil companies still get to drill for methane, as its the layer of gas above an oil patch....while e85 makes takes the oil companies out of the equation....Hmmmmm??? Don't think "politics" has nothing to do with this.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,635,351 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by m73m95 View Post
Are subsidies for CNG any different than e85? Other than oil companies still get to drill for methane, as its the layer of gas above an oil patch....while e85 makes takes the oil companies out of the equation....Hmmmmm??? Don't think "politics" has nothing to do with this.
Nobody is becoming obese on the byproduct of methane production. Touché!

In fact, methane production is a byproduct of Happy Meals, which is a byproduct of subsidized corn.

Face it, whenever we turn over an internal combustion engine, something bad had to happen to the environment. I hate fracking. I hate subsidized corn. Both practices are like environmental cancer. But I hate war more. I went with methane because it already powers my oven, furnace and water heater. The way I look at it, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

So I try to do the most responsible thing possible whenever I turn over that engine. I think you've got the same idea, too. We're just going about it differently. No big deal. Either way is still better than blood-tainted gasoline.
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
542 posts, read 818,774 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
Nobody is becoming obese on the byproduct of methane production. Touché!

In fact, methane production is a byproduct of Happy Meals, which is a byproduct of subsidized corn.

Face it, whenever we turn over an internal combustion engine, something bad had to happen to the environment. I hate fracking. I hate subsidized corn. Both practices are like environmental cancer. But I hate war more. I went with methane because it already powers my oven, furnace and water heater. The way I look at it, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

So I try to do the most responsible thing possible whenever I turn over that engine. I think you've got the same idea, too. We're just going about it differently. No big deal. Either way is still better than blood-tainted gasoline.
Absolutely. I was never trying to argue with you. I'm a big fan of e85. You're a fan of methane. Both have their strengths and weaknesses....but the strengths of both outweigh gas/oil by miles.

Its actually nice to talk to someone who shares my love of hating oil


And...no babies have ever been made by ingesting methane
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Old 10-11-2011, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
12,686 posts, read 30,964,098 times
Reputation: 5358
Back to the original post ...sort of: Las Vegas Business Press :: News : One-time California company finds NLV thick with promise
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