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Old 02-01-2011, 08:16 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 2,994,773 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
Last year UMC's deficit was 70 million, projected 80 million this year. If we know that 28 million of that (approx 33%) is solely from illegals on dialysis, I think we have a good place to start closing the deficit.

Ultimately we have to decide as a society how we are willing to deal with medically indigent people, both domestic and illegal. We either agree that you don't get services if you don't pay which means throwing sick people out into the street or we decide that we will pay for them in which case we need to adjust taxes to pay for these services.

Realistically, I don't think I want us throwing sick people into the street, but I really can't make that decision since I have no idea what is the real tax burden of actually paying for that care. If it requires me to be taxed at 75%, I'm probably going to feel differently.
This is exactly right. Just because solution X does not COMPLETELY resolve problem/concern Y, does not mean that it should be disregarded. On the federal level, there are relatively painless ways to save tens of billions of dollars which, unfortunately, add up to just a rounding error with respect to the total deficit and debt. Does that mean we neglect these savings? Of course not! May as well get the 'easy' savings up front before tackling the more difficult issues.

In true life or death situations, it's harder to make adjustments for illegals. That said, my sense is that they are flooding Emergency Departments with concerns that are nowhere near life and death on a regular basis.

Healthcare is a service/commodity just like anything else. We have to keep in mind it costs the provider(s) a LOT of money. If they are not compensated for their efforts, they will cease to provide the care. They either have to receive compensation or provide less uncompensated care, which hinders their ability to remain afloat.

Why should I not pay for Healthcare, while I should pay for food, lodging, transportation, etc? There are ways to lower the cost of insurance, but the Government is taking the opposite approach.

 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:34 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,757 posts, read 20,003,588 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
Last year UMC's deficit was 70 million, projected 80 million this year. If we know that 28 million of that (approx 33%) is solely from illegals on dialysis, I think we have a good place to start closing the deficit.

Ultimately we have to decide as a society how we are willing to deal with medically indigent people, both domestic and illegal. We either agree that you don't get services if you don't pay which means throwing sick people out into the street or we decide that we will pay for them in which case we need to adjust taxes to pay for these services.

Realistically, I don't think I want us throwing sick people into the street, but I really can't make that decision since I have no idea what is the real tax burden of actually paying for that care. If it requires me to be taxed at 75%, I'm probably going to feel differently.
Sorry but you know no such thing. The ultimately weird book keeping of the industry says there is no connection between a billing of 28 million and what it actually cost.


A big municipal hospital in the center of the city and convenient to the lower economic strata is always going to require a significant assist to survive.

True everywhere.

We can close it but that simply diffuses the cost and hides it. Spread it around among the other hospitals...but it does not go away.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 05:38 PM
 
62 posts, read 125,904 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
Last year UMC's deficit was 70 million, projected 80 million this year. If we know that 28 million of that (approx 33%) is solely from illegals on dialysis, I think we have a good place to start closing the deficit.

Ultimately we have to decide as a society how we are willing to deal with medically indigent people, both domestic and illegal. We either agree that you don't get services if you don't pay which means throwing sick people out into the street or we decide that we will pay for them in which case we need to adjust taxes to pay for these services.

Realistically, I don't think I want us throwing sick people into the street, but I really can't make that decision since I have no idea what is the real tax burden of actually paying for that care. If it requires me to be taxed at 75%, I'm probably going to feel differently.
I say throw them out regardless....Sure, I get nearly free healthcare, a benefit from serving in the MC for 4 years....but the insurance costs of my three daughters exceed my car payment each month...I feel for some of the homeless citizens who may have offered something to this country at one time, but these illegals need to beat it.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 05:51 PM
 
1,075 posts, read 1,499,621 times
Reputation: 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Sorry but you know no such thing. The ultimately weird book keeping of the industry says there is no connection between a billing of 28 million and what it actually cost.
Well that probably is the case, but without good information, I can't make good decisions. Maybe that's the point, give me such worthless info that I give up on making a decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
A big municipal hospital in the center of the city and convenient to the lower economic strata is always going to require a significant assist to survive.

True everywhere.

We can close it but that simply diffuses the cost and hides it. Spread it around among the other hospitals...but it does not go away.
I agree, but I'm saying take one step back further and ask ourselves as a society if we want to provide medical care for the indigent and if so, we need to pay for it.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 06:05 PM
 
80 posts, read 84,170 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Hmm that is strange. I spent 6 hours last April in the emergency room at Mountain View. There was a couple of hispanics in a cloud of white guys.

Could it be the area demographics determine who uses the ER?
Could be.........don't try to get into Sienna on St. Rose Parkway.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
11,351 posts, read 19,490,645 times
Reputation: 3933
I won't get into the race thing, and I don't know what's going to happen to UMC, but UMC has been "going to close soon" for at least as long as I've been in Las Vegas, and I moved here in 1964 (as a small child, of course). The reason has never changed either. It's their way of getting more money. It may not work much longer, but it has for half a century at least. I'd hate to see them close as they have a good hospital there, even though the neighborhood has declined. Same thing with Sunrise, the hospital the Mob built. The neighborhood has gone to seed, but if you need a heart procedure, you should have it done at Sunrise.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:05 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,757 posts, read 20,003,588 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
Well that probably is the case, but without good information, I can't make good decisions. Maybe that's the point, give me such worthless info that I give up on making a decision.



I agree, but I'm saying take one step back further and ask ourselves as a society if we want to provide medical care for the indigent and if so, we need to pay for it.
I agree...and I think care for the illegals should be carried entirely by the feds. Note that this is not as simple as it sounds as the cost of treating illegals will immediately double or quadruple as soon as the feds agree to pay it.

If we don't wish to pay for indigent care we need to figure out how to handle the clean up function. Can't have the bodies of the dead, particularly the children, laying in the entrance to the ERs. Health hazard.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
12,246 posts, read 16,442,189 times
Reputation: 5640
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Pull that silly sh*t again and you will wait to 2012. i already responded to your reques.t
Got your repsonse. Sorry...was just trying to get your attention, as I pulled it up the other day and got no response from you. It was starting to sink way down again, so I needed to revive it.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 10:19 PM
 
10,481 posts, read 14,142,579 times
Reputation: 6349
It is better to just DM Olecapt privately.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
12,246 posts, read 16,442,189 times
Reputation: 5640
You are correct, sir.
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