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Old 10-07-2007, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
1,679 posts, read 1,592,681 times
Reputation: 1137
Nice post Bull135, glad it worked out for you. You bash people that aren't your realtor? You bash people for their opinions? Real classy move. I have been reading in here for a long time and NOBODY says buy. Nobody can figure the bottom of the market; realtors, buyers, sellers, economists, etc... What I read (and have been reading for a long time) is if you find a nice house, you feel comfortable paying the price that is offered, you take advantage of the still historically low interest rates, and you buy.
What will your post be if you come out and buy a home for 255K then prices drop another 20% over the next 3 years? Will people call you a fool for spending the extra 50K?
Give the man a break, he never said buy a home from me! I need to be your realtor! I have read numerous posts from him and he said he doesn't have a preference if it goes up, but would like it to even out so people feel comfortable buying again. I'm one sitting on the fence but getting ready to dive in. If it drops another 10-15% over the next 2 years, it will make it back up within 5. My home is where I will live for the long haul. I'm not looking at making a lot of money, it's a home, not a great investment. That said, if I sell and downsize in 15 years it will be nice to make some money on it then. Until then, I will get what I can afford and be happy with it. But again, good to hear you saved some money.
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:28 AM
 
237 posts, read 627,366 times
Reputation: 55
Default Of coure it is there fault

All of the people who are getting forclosed on who where making 50k a year and bought a 450k home all say the same thing the broker told me i could afford it. My realtor did not say anything. Of course they would not because that's a fatter comission check than if they had bought a 200k home. Like they should have.And you are correct no one can predict the bottom but if the homes went from 160k to 360 and back to 200k and if i buy in at around 225k i will say and most will agree that is a pretty good move. That i bought near the bottom. But if they go from 160k to 360k in 5 years and you buy at 360k after a 5 year run up i mean is it not that obvious that if that is not at the peak it must be getting close. And since the average american lives so far above there means , and all the forclosures now make it more obvious. That for most americans there home is more than a place to just live , but part of there retirement plan and looked at as a long term investment.You are correct for sitting on the fense. I should have recorded all the realitors on this forum trying to convice people that the market is going to flatten and not sell off because there are so many people moving here. They always leave out that alot of people are also leaveing vegas every month. When we moved after only a year 4 of my neighbors that lived there for less than 3 years where also leaving and another 5 said they are also moving in a year or so, as soon as there infants get a little older they as most agree sin city is a great place for adults , but has to be one of the worst cities to raise children in. If anyone says a city that prostituion is (not legal) but accepted and everwhere , where gambling is everywhere and strip clubs and bilboards everywhere you look is a good wholesome place for kids they need to get the head checked. I respect your opinions and enjoy the comments.... i think every bank in the nation that , put people in to adjustable loans should be ordered by the goverment to put them in a fixed 7% loan. The banks would get paid every month , less than they should have , but more than nothing which is what they where getting and 1000's of families that where mislead by nonmoral almost illigal brokers would keep there homes.......... My freind who is a car salesman says he is now not looked at as the biggest scumbag in the business world , loan officers are now #1.........

Last edited by bull136; 10-07-2007 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 23,690,846 times
Reputation: 4806
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull136 View Post
All of the people who are getting forclosed on who where making 50k a year and bought a 450k home all say the same thing the broker told me i could afford it.
Funny - while someone may have said they can afford it - couldn't the buyer have said "that's nice but, I want something for less money"? Couldn't they have made their own decision or, was a gun put to their head

Quote:
Originally Posted by bull136 View Post
My realtor did not say anything. Of course they would not because that's a fatter comission check than if they had bought a 200k home. Like they should have.
Like they "should have"? Why? Why should they have tried to talk you out of making a decision that was CLEARLY up to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bull136 View Post
They always leave out that alot of people are also leaveing vegas every month. When we moved after only a year 4 of my neighbors that lived there for less than 3 years where also leaving and another 5 said they are also moving in a year or so, as soon as there infants get a little older they as most agree sin city is a great place for adults , but has to be one of the worst cities to raise children in.
If someone comes to LV and does not know that it is one of the most transient cities in the nation - and that there are strip clubs and yes, it's nickname is "SIN CITY" for a reason then, that is there problem as far as I'm concerned. I am not suppose to be their "more" barometer for crying out loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bull136 View Post
If anyone says a city that prostituion is (not legal) but accepted and everwhere , where gambling is everywhere and strip clubs and bilboards everywhere you look is a good wholesome place for kids they need to get the head checked.
Why? Why should you be the one to decide how others raise their kids? Many families in Las Vegas have raised their families quite well thank you - the kids grew up to be fine, educated and dedicated adults!

Another poster wrote: if they use a first time home-buyer type loan and put down less, how many can afford the approx. $2,000/month payments?

The answer is actually fairly simple: Many of these first time buyers are two wage earner families. Two wage earners earning 36,000 a year times 2 equals $72,000 a year household income. That $2,000 a month debt payment is now 33% of income (or less) -

And, for the record, I strongly support making loan disclosure far more detailed - to put the "worse case scenario" out there for the prospective borrower to see - and to do it as part of the GFE - Good Faith Estimate - given to the borrower within 3 days of the loan application.

But ultimately, the decision to buy is not up to the REALTOR - it is the consumers decision - and no one elses
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:26 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,757 posts, read 20,036,450 times
Reputation: 2661
You are presuming apparently that there has been a sharp price break. That happened only in your dreams. Remarkably given the jaw-bowing going on prices are down about 5 or 6%.

If you have actually been following the advice I give I have suggested that it is a good time to rent particularly if you lack a substantial down payment. There are lots of reasons why one will buy a home....most of which are not economic. But this is certainly not a good time to be a marginal first time home buyer if you are driven primarily by economics. It is, by the way, relatively easy for a first time buyer to get into a home with low down. Just did one a month ago. But that gentleman wanted a permanent home and actually got a very good deal.

The mortgage problems are of course real. Builders get a premium of perhaps 8 or 10% over fair market for their houses. Combine that with a drop of 6% and a peak buyer is down 16% plus the cost of sale. If the buyer is highly leveraged it is a very hard situaltion.

Note though that those who played the high leverage game from 1998 to 2004 are now very happy. So a strategy that worked well for a number of years turned in a relatively short time to a disaster one.

I personally think anyone who bought for investment purposes after January of 2005 should have their head checked. But the right of people to commit financial suicide is well established. Greed is an ugly thing that sometimes causes vast drops in IQ.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:09 AM
 
237 posts, read 627,366 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Funny - while someone may have said they can afford it - couldn't the buyer have said "that's nice but, I want something for less money"? Couldn't they have made their own decision or, was a gun put to their head



Like they "should have"? Why? Why should they have tried to talk you out of making a decision that was CLEARLY up to you?



If someone comes to LV and does not know that it is one of the most transient cities in the nation - and that there are strip clubs and yes, it's nickname is "SIN CITY" for a reason then, that is there problem as far as I'm concerned. I am not suppose to be their "more" barometer for crying out loud.



Why? Why should you be the one to decide how others raise their kids? Many families in Las Vegas have raised their families quite well thank you - the kids grew up to be fine, educated and dedicated adults!

Another poster wrote: if they use a first time home-buyer type loan and put down less, how many can afford the approx. $2,000/month payments?

The answer is actually fairly simple: Many of these first time buyers are two wage earner families. Two wage earners earning 36,000 a year times 2 equals $72,000 a year household income. That $2,000 a month debt payment is now 33% of income (or less) -

And, for the record, I strongly support making loan disclosure far more detailed - to put the "worse case scenario" out there for the prospective borrower to see - and to do it as part of the GFE - Good Faith Estimate - given to the borrower within 3 days of the loan application.

But ultimately, the decision to buy is not up to the REALTOR - it is the consumers decision - and no one elses
First of all I 100 % disagree with you . I will answer why they should try to talk you out of it ?????? So many americans are walking around with no knowledge about money and real estate that it is up to the real estate professional to help quide them. Thats why you use one not just for showing houses . if i had no real estate knowledge like most and my realtor did not try to talk me out of buying a home that I in my inexperienced mind though i could , #1 afford , and #2 did not really crasp what could and most likely will happen to my payments and that is go up. And the realitor who is a professional and has an obligation to give advise and help her client make a smart decision. So you are telling me that the realitor who 100% knows there client has no business buying this house and she knows ( from experience we hope) that when the payment goes up and it will. There client is going to be in a very bad financial situation. Including bad credit , bankrupcy and of course forclosure. That is why so many people are in trouble because uninformed narrow minded people like yourself who is probably smart enough not to make so a poor choice think it is up to the public to know i have news for you THEY DO NOT . The professionals must have a responsiblity.But i will also say alot of realitor are not professionals , but inexperienced part time "door unlockers" That is why so many are probably in trouble because there realitor did not know they should not buy.....But alot of realitors did know and still alowed there client to move forward........ It is to easy to get a realistate license. In my case i bought my first 2-family when i was 20 years old and have owned and still own dozens of homes for rentals and when i go out to look at a house. And a 22 year old kid pulls up and wants to help me Find a property. Who one does not even own his own house and has no experience in real estate at all ( other than the 2 week course required to get his license). Now he is going to help guide someone else who in most cases has no experience in real estate into the largest trasaction and investment in there lives. Would you not call this the "blind leading the blind". And about raising your family in sin city just because you can do something does not make it a good idea. Again i appreciate your comments and the discussion.

Last edited by bull136; 10-07-2007 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:36 AM
 
237 posts, read 627,366 times
Reputation: 55
Default The License is a joke...

A friend of mine who is a stock broker said once, " I had to go to college for 4 years and study countless manuals and take a long exam and then start out as an assistant, to sell someone $100 of stock, but in 2 weeks of simple classes and taking a very easy test ( not an exam) I could sell someone a $500,000 home. with not a care in the world if the client could or should buy this house? Does anyone else think there is something wrong with this picture

Last edited by bull136; 10-07-2007 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 10-07-2007, 12:27 PM
 
1 posts, read 849 times
Reputation: 10
I would like to make a comment on realtors selling homes to families who really couldn't afford the monthly payments. First of all it is Realtors like that who give GOOD Realtors abad name. Buyers go to Realtors mostly of their lack of experience in purchasing a home..Second Realtors generally have listing of homes forsale..Third Realtors generally (SHOULD) walk the buyer through the quailfying, offering, contracting and lending steps even if they are a sellers agent..the purpose for this, is to make sure the agent is bringing the seller a willing and able buyer to purchase the seller's property, but let's not forget the Realtor has a responsiblitly to the buyer also. I was a Realtor several years ago in another state. In the past year I have heard many buyer's upset over the fact they went to Realtors to purchase a home and opening their finances to them along with the lenders (buyers putting their trust in them) and all along the Realtor and lenders know that the buyers really can't afford it or how about some of these buyers that did a owner finance and while making payments to the owner the owner was not applying the payments correctly or the seller trying to dig himself out of financial problems on other properties he has, so, the buyers loses the property due to forcloses because of the sellers mishandling money on the property. Let's talk about renting properties, my husband and I went to a Real Estate Co to rent a property, we seen it put a deposit on the property and signed a Real Estate Lease Agreement, transferred utilities for the 1st of month, 2 days before we were to move in the Real Estate Co did not have a Rental Management Agreement with the owner, their response was we tried to convince him into renting but he is behind on his mortage, on all his properties including this one, so the only way we would be able to move in was to buy the home. So, not only did the Real Estate Co write a illegal Tenant Lease Ageement and take a Rental Deposit, they knew this home might be going into foreclosure. Home owners that rent their properties are not or can't make their mortage payments so, the banks are doing repro's and renters are getting evicted. So, I think there are other issues going on.
P.S. THERE IS AN OATH THAT A REALTOR TAKE WITH THE NAR BOARD OF REALTORS.
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 23,690,846 times
Reputation: 4806
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull136 View Post
First of all I 100 % disagree with you . I will answer why they should try to talk you out of it ??????
I appreciate your comments however, I must disagree with them

My job, when showing property to buyers is to a) identify the specific buyers, needs, wants and motivations - b) as a buyers broker to help negotiate the best transaction I can for the buyers - and this includes making sure that issues relating to the property are properly disclosed to them and encouraging them to better protect their OWN best interests by seeking additional outside qualified counsel - if they do not heed my advice, an many do not, then, they are assuming responsibility for same. BTW, this outside counsel may include an Attorney, qualified tax advisor, property inspectors etc.

As for financing (one must remember that there were, and continue to be, a number of all cash transactions - no financing), finding a lender that is offering the type of loan program that meets the clients particular needs is also important. Many buyers may already have lined up financing (subject to a contract on a particular property and appraisals) -

With the myriad of different loan programs out there today, my job is to encourage the buyers to look at a variety of different options they have - and then to have them look at what I call the "good, the bad, and the UGLY' parts of a particular loan. Can the interest rate rise? Will the payment go up if it does? etc

Many lenders require on their disclosure forms the buyer / borrower initial certain disclosure like the interest and payment raise potential etc.

BUT, ultimately, the decision to buy or borrow is not my decision - it is the consumers. It is an issue of personal responsibility. I can show them property - I can help guide them through the maze of the "process" - I can advise them of different options - etc. But, bottom line: It is their decision - not mine.

BTW, a favor: You might consider breaking up your posts into smaller paragraphs - it really would make it a lot easier to read and understand

Thanks
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:18 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,757 posts, read 20,036,450 times
Reputation: 2661
There seems to be some view that an RE Agent is in a position to advise a client as to what can be afforded.

Why would that be? I don't know a clients financial situation. I know what they tell me in certain limited terms..."I can afford $1500 a month for housing" say.. and I will show them houses that will end up in that range. Or the client can say I don't want to go past $400,000. OK...I don't show them anything they can't buy for $400,000.

But are they at their absolute limit at $400,000? How the hell would I know? Does $400,000 involve some form of teaser rate with a requirement to refinance? Well if I know about it I will likely suggest they are nuts and we should move down some. But if they insist what do you suggest I do? And do I know? If the client is working with a mortgage broker that I use a lot I would likely know and resist. But if the client comes with financing?

It is not my task to reform the countries mortgage system. And I work with a number of clients who would swiftly point out that this entire area is none of my business. I had one client who got hassled by Countrywide the day before closing to provide a copy of her SS card. She got annoyed and payed cash. Was I shocked? No...I knew she had money...But $180K in cash in 24 hours? That was surprising.

If that Lady chose to use some teaser rate for a limited term should I worry about it?

I have as well worked deals where the people involved were "operators" and the sales contract was in fact transferred to a third party just prior to close. Was that deal wise? I have not the faintest idea...but they knew a whole lot more about mortgages and financing than I ever will. So I do the job I was paid to do and they take care of the financing themselves.


So I am quite willing to counsel a first time buyer on what is safe and sane if they request it. I will likely offer the help if I think they need it. But should I fire them if they refuse counseling?

There may well be a need for some reform in the mortgage business. But that is not a RE Agent problem.
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:09 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
305 posts, read 599,651 times
Reputation: 75
Default Las Vegas Housing Market Outlook Grim!

It keeps getting worse and worse!

CHECK OUT THE LINK BELOW!


Las Vegas Now - Breaking News, Local News, Weather, Traffic, Streaming Video, Classifieds, Blogs - Las Vegas Housing Market Outlook Grim (broken link)
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