[Prosze]

I think they are great & I wish we had them in Las Vegas.

[delgadobb]

Originally Posted by Dltordj

I think they are great & I wish we had them in Las Vegas.

Why do you think they are great? Careful what you wish for ...

Much like Olecapt, I'd support them if they were used properly to punish the people truly running red lights. What happens in reality is quite different, tho.

They've had these in Chicago for some time. The city blew their budget (& Daley's in charge), so guess what they've become? Revenue generators ... ding ding ding, we have a winner! Everybody & their brother/sister/mother who doesn't make a complete stop for a few seconds before turning right on red is getting tickets in the mail. Anything borderline is being fined. Add that to the kangaroo court mentality of guilty 'til proven innocent & the city's raking in the dough. Of course, bad drivers remain throughout the city, so it hasn't improved much in terms of safety, but at least the city's getting their loot ...

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by olecapt

But the general outcome is they become revenue sources because of revenue generated by a failure to stop fully on a right turn on red.

The right turn on red is more of a technical violation with few safety implications...but it is very common and creates a lot of revenue.

I would support the cameras if they were limited to running red lights....but I doubt they will be.

Originally Posted by delgadobb

Why do you think they are great? Careful what you wish for ...

Much like Olecapt, I'd support them if they were used properly to punish the people truly running red lights. What happens in reality is quite different, tho.

They've had these in Chicago for some time.... Everybody & their brother/sister/mother who doesn't make a complete stop for a few seconds before turning right on red is getting tickets in the mail. Anything borderline is being fined.

That's interesting. Do you have any source for that info? Because we had them in both Maryland and D.C. for years and I never heard of one instance where that happened. There were news articles about rear-end crashes and accusations about shortened yellow lights, but not one complaint about a ticket for turning right on red. In fact, the way the cameras were set up and took pictures, I believe that it would be impossible to get a ticket while turning right.

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda

That's interesting. Do you have any source for that info? Because we had them in both Maryland and D.C. for years and I never heard of one instance where that happened. There were news articles about rear-end crashes and accusations about shortened yellow lights, but not one complaint about a ticket for turning right on red. In fact, the way the cameras were set up and took pictures, I believe that it would be impossible to get a ticket while turning right.

This is a timely topic - a local bay area news segment about this same issue aired just a few weeks ago.

Bill would knock $200 off right-turn-on red camera fine - Inside Bay Area

[delgadobb]

Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda

That's interesting. Do you have any source for that info? Because we had them in both Maryland and D.C. for years and I never heard of one instance where that happened. There were news articles about rear-end crashes and accusations about shortened yellow lights, but not one complaint about a ticket for turning right on red. In fact, the way the cameras were set up and took pictures, I believe that it would be impossible to get a ticket while turning right.

Um, myself? Four friends? Widely reported in the city itself, both in terms of hearsay (secondhand info) & media reports. As far as I understand, the majority of the red light tickets in Chicago are for turning right on red, not running the light.

I got one of these coming back from the vet the day one of my ferrets died. Apparently I didn't stop as long as I usually do at the red light before turning. I did stop, but it was brief, they tagged me on a judgement call & sent me the ticket in the mail. I tried to fight it, but good luck getting it overturned unless you can prove your absolute innocence & that the city violated 37 laws.

Now, this IS Chicago, where I once fought a ticket for being parked too close to a fire hydrant. Took multiple pictures with tape measure showing I was 22 feet from hydrant (15 feet was law, I believe), brought a witness, judge claimed they couldn't verify any of my info. I mentioned to the judge that EVERY car on that street had a ticket that day (in the city, it's often bumper to bumper parking in neighborhoods). It was obvious one of the contractors the city uses (not police) was trying to meet numbers or a quota based on the "most people won't go through the hassle to fight it" mentality. Ultimately, what got it thrown out? I noticed the sloppy, rushed ticket writer put the wrong date on the ticket. A technicality gets it thrown out instead of the proper principle that I was well beyond the limit.

I know we're not in Chicago, put the potential for abuse with red light cameras is certainly there.

[unf0rgiven6262]

First you have to get all the drivers without license plates off the road. There is hardly a day that goes by that I don't spot a guy with no plates. And yes, I look for the temporary paper taped to the window etc. 75% of the time it's usually on some old honda civic with an over sized muffler that sounds like my lawn mower.

[Prosze]

You know I don't feel sorry for people who run red lights. It's really very simple, don't go through a red light don't get a ticket.

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by delgadobb

Um, myself? Four friends? Widely reported in the city itself, both in terms of hearsay (secondhand info) & media reports. As far as I understand, the majority of the red light tickets in Chicago are for turning right on red, not running the light.

Don't misunderstand - I wasn't doubting you. I have no idea how the cameras are set up in Chicago or what the law is there. I was requesting a source so I could read about it because this is all new to me. AFAIK, this is not an issue with the cameras in the Washington, DC area. At least I have never heard nor read about it being an issue there.

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

This is a timely topic - a local bay area news segment about this same issue aired just a few weeks ago.

Bill would knock $200 off right-turn-on red camera fine - Inside Bay Area

Thanks for that link. I also found an old LA Times article on this issue which states that 80% of the red-light camera tickets are for right turns:

Red-light cameras catch right turns and lots of revenue - Los Angeles Times

This is all very interesting - and enlightening. As I noted previously, I have never seen this issue raised in the DC area.

[las vegas drunk]

Originally Posted by Dltordj

I think they are great & I wish we had them in Las Vegas.

Then give up your freedoms and move to Phoenix. They are all over the place over there. One of the reasons I moved here was to get away from that crap.