Lake Las Vegas Announcement and Update PART 2 (Henderson: buyers, bankruptcy)
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There are so many rumors going on about the golf courses. It's hard to know what is true. SS Golfer has only made one post. I don't know how credible that post is. Please call Gerri Schroeder or even the Mayor to voice your concerns and find out more information. I heard that the Falls has been spruced up for a possible sale?
I spoke to counsel woman Gerri Shroeder a few months ago about the courses. I reported she was pretty tight lipped about any developments. However, she did advise me that the city would not re-zone those golf courses for anything but golf. Carmel Land and Cattle can apply to re-zone, but I seriously doubt the city would consider it. As others have pointed out in this blog, the viability and tax base of the homes, the businesses and hotels of Lake Las Vegas are dependent on the golf courses re-opening. These are top 25 courses in the country. They should be open for play now. If Carmel doesn't maintain the courses, they can face a hefty fine.
The courses are only brown as they didn't over seed for the winter. They will come back green once it warms up. I scratch my head often at the bone-heads at Carmel Land and Cattle. If you read some of my prior postings, Carmel Land and Cattle are located in Houston Texas- the attorney to the Bass Brothers- who funded the purchase of the debt from Wells Fargo for 1 million dollars. This is seriously all about who's stick is bigger. I gotta tell you between the idiots in our government and the idiots at Carmel Land and Cattle ruining Lake Las vegas, it's enough to cause one to go postal. Good grief.. Carmel Land and Cattle--- if you are reading this.. sell the courses and just go away! Why are they making this so hard? If you want to really bend the politicians ear, check the tax rolls.. Carmel Land and Cattle pay less in property taxes on on each course than I do for a 500 square foot studio condo. I've already brought this up to Gerri Shroeder.
I visited friends in Spanish Trail last weekend. This is a high-end well established neighborhood. They did not overseed their golf course either. Their course looked worse than Lake Las Vegas, so we're not alone.
On the bright side, I ran across this today's article from a San Fran News Paper:
Next, consider the home's location and schools in the area. We're seeing more home buyers looking to Henderson on the Southeast side of the Vegas Valley which generally is less crowded than the Summerlin area on the Northwest side. Lake Las Vegas on the East side is the only master planned community of its kind in the area, and it has significantly rebounded from the depths of the recession. The average price for homes at Lake Las Vegas increased 24 percent in 2011 over 2010, but the community still offers outstanding value for the money in the Vegas real estate market," Jonas explained
Read more: Las Vegas Home Buying Bargains: Available But Quickly Taken Says Realtor (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/01/26/prweb9134616.DTL#ixzz1kdbcETQN - broken link)
This article is very positive for LLV. My realtor has informed me of the same thing. There are hardly any foreclosures in LLV and houses are selling well. The general perception is that LLV will be fine.
The trial for the remaining silly water rights issues between the City of Henderson and Carmel Land and Cattle will be over in a few months. I'm sure that lawsuit was a stumbling block for any potential purchasers of RB and/or the Falls.
Let me get this straight. The idiots at Carmel think the land value is worth more than the business? They must not understand that the golf courses and the success of it, is what will bring up the value of LLV as a whole. It would be wiser to make the golf course successful then opt out by putting it up for sale once it's operating in black. Wouldn't a thriving business bring about more bidders and interest than trying to sell of a golf course for residential rezoning in this economic condition? Do they not see the potential in traffic that a decent price for a round of golf could bring?
When you first turn on to Lake Las Vegas Pkwy off Lake Mead, do they not see the land prepped for homes on the left hand side? Does that look like it's taking off? I've haven't see one home built yet. Have any of the builders bidded for those land? Woodside? Pardee? Toll Brothers? Anyone? I certainly haven't seen any signs even promoting new homes in LLV. If anything just some promotions on unsold inventory left over from Woodside and Harmony Homes.
I wonder if at this point there's the ability to ban together to force the city into denying the rezoning of the courses. I believe all residents, the two hotels, and any businesses associated with LLV might have a fighting chance to take on Carmel. Or am I just wishful thinking?
One question; does Carmel own both Rainbow and Falls?
Carmel is a shell for the bass brothers. They used to own all of LLV. Lost everything but the two golf courses. They have absolutely no interest in the success of LLV now that they can't make any more money out of it. They just seem to be delaying for the sake of delaying. Really disappointing.
Has anyone heard anything from the Atalon group? They are still in the picture correct? Is there anything they could do from their end?
How about politically? The tax thing makes no sense to me. How does one pay less taxes on two entire golf courses than others do on their home property? Is there some special clause granted on these courses? And if so what can be done to counter it? Because at this point I do believe it will take some political effort to get this unravelled. Fines, heavy taxes, etc.
Curious if the Bass Bros. have other areas of interest throughout the states. If anyone knows please post it.
Personally I think the fight against the Bass Bros., Carmel would be from the home owners and business interests of LLV as a whole, the Atalon Group (assuming they are on our side), and from a political level. So the question is "what are our options"?
Atalon is still in the picture. Jim Coyne is heading it up.
My thoughts exactly about the golf course ownership. If the owner is paying $500.00 a year in property taxes for a multimillion dollar piece of property, what incentive do they have to move on? No real cost to them, except for keeping their attorney's on the payroll for the water rights issues.
Plus, this is low cost way for Carmel Land and Cattle with the financial assistance of the Bass Brothers to show they still have a big stick, at the detriment of innocent home owners who just want to play golf. If all they have are 2 golf courses, the stick ain't that big.
Hopefully, the trial in June will put all of this to rest. However, we do need to follow up with Gerri Shroder about the SSGolfer's comment. I already cut/pasted it into an email and asked her to clarify this. I'll let you know what she said, if anything.
What was the trial for again? I forget with so many issues going on with these courses. My recollection is that the trial was for something to do with the water rights? Not sure how that can influence the prosperity of LLV as far as the golf course is concerned.
We do need to find out about the tax thing. Is it possible to get to the bottom
of it? There is absolutely no reason they should be paying close to nothing in taxes. Can someone do some digging around?
@Hard888, the trial is for the water rights on how they can water the golf courses. An agreement was reached by the judge many months ago and of course, Carmel Land and Cattle, in their usual fashion decided to add more defendants and continue the matter on some other trivial issues, causing to proceed to trial in June.
I heard from Counsel Woman Gerri Shroder. Unfortunately,she confirmed that most of what SSGolfer said is true. In my opinion, while this may be Carmel's intent, it doesn't mean that the city will agree to any zoning changes, but what it may mean is that Carmel may choose to not maintain them. Then this may result in the city or the master having to litigate against them. Again, just when there is a light at the end of the tunnnel for the water righs issue is being resolved, Carmel Land and Cattle decided to throw another monkey wrench into the mix. I wanted to make clear that Ms. Shroder only confirmed that most of the post was true. She did not comment on the city's response or how to proceed. Too bad there aren't any grounds for emminent domain here.
I just don't understand Carmel Land and Cattle's vendetta against the city and/or Lake Las Vegas. If they don't want to own them, then f'ing selling them. (pardon my language) The offers they have turned down so far have to be more than cheap cost of residental land prices. A closed golf course is worth WAY more than residential land.
I have expressed my HUGE concerns that the viability of the village rests on more roof tops and more golfers/traffic to Ms. Shroder. LLV is a golfing community. I hope that everyone else that reads this will call counsel woman Shroder, or the mayor, the city atty to voice your opinion.
The tax thing is not a city issue. It's a Clark County issue. I already tried with the city. I want to be careful not to get any media attention on this as I don't want to harm LLV.
Gerri Shroder isn't really able to do much. Realistically her and her office can maybe at most deny Carmel a rezoning permit. Not sure what that will lead Carmel to do, but obviously they'll think of something other than reopening the courses. Their actions and intentions have already proven that they have no interest to operate the land as golf courses. Simple fact, they need to be out of the picture.
Regarding the trial; it's just a water issue. I do not see it as a direct affect on the success of LLV. The outcome of the trial means nothing towards the operation of the golf courses. I do not see Carmel reopening the courses.
So it leads me to conclude two things.
One; get on Clark County to see how and why Carmel is paying close to nothing on taxes for these properties. If it was some sort of business credit incentive I can understand that. However under those conditions the business is required to be a business in operation. These courses are definitely not running. No argument there. Otherwise everyone in Clark County will have reason to raise hell come property tax time. By the ratio awarded to Carmel, I should be paying no more than $0.10 on my annual property tax...and neither should the rest of any Clark County residents. Whatever the case may be, Carmel needs to levied the correct tax ratio as any resident owning real estate.
Two; start a class action suit against Carmel. The community as a whole can file claim on real estate value due to Carmel's actions on these courses. It can be argued that the real estate values are dependent on the perception of LLV being a destination resort whereby providing amenities that other venues do not offer. Thus sustaining the real estate values within expectations of such a venue. The golf courses affect these values directly. Not only do the residents have ground to file suit on, but the businesses (in the village) and the hotels can argue the same. Without the golfing element, Carmel is attributing a negative factor to the operation of LLV as a destination resort. Essentially Carmel's actions are prohibiting these other operations from thriving. And furthermore, I would hope and suspect Atalon should want to dip their feet in such a suit since they run the resort and should have LLV's success in mind. Needless to say, they "know" that the golf courses need to be running.
You know what this is like? It's like Disneyland only leaving the Small World ride open while shutting all other rides and operations. Can Disney survive on just one ride and live up to its "theme park" moniker? Doubt it.
LLVResident, to your point on the media for LLV, I don't think the negativity can be avoided. Sooner or later someone will see the courses and wonder "what the hell"? Someone will publish something to mention how desolate the entrance and courses look compared to the earlier days when LLV was thriving during its growth. It's inevitable. Not to mention two reknowned golf courses being out of operation for some time in and of itself is something negative to write about already.
By the way, you said you spoke with Clark County (I'm assuming about the tax issue for the courses). What did you find out?
Last edited by hard888; 01-27-2012 at 05:44 PM..
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