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Old 09-28-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Vegas, baby, Vegas!
3,164 posts, read 3,488,568 times
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I'm a psychic, and I can tell you with 100% certainy (is that a word) that my future wife is cheating on me at this exact moment!

Jonathan
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:45 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
14,851 posts, read 17,990,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logline View Post
Branson, exactly! Just because science hasn't explained things we do not yet understand means we are obligated to examine it SCIENTIFICALLY, not with woo-woo thinking. The scientific method should be applied to these situations, not jumping the shark to a supernatural explanation. You are proving my point. Tall tales, oral history and mythology are prevalent in all cultures for a reason. Take any anthropology class in any college in the world and you'll see that these stories/beliefs help people deal with the uncertainties inherent in the world. Most myths are perpetuated by uneducated, unscientific, highly "magical thinking" cultures. The fact that we are the most religious country in the modern, western world speaks volumes about how many problems we face.

"People have called them ghosts for lack of a better term, but who is to say that the spirit of a person cannot live on once their body dies. Perhaps it is just the imprint of our energy that remains."

I am to say. That's who. And everybody else who simply thinks logically that there is no "energy" or "spirit" lingering after one's death. I know you think I'm an arrogant, atheistic jerk for bringing up the obvious, but please, tell me where I can see this "energy" in a LIVE person!
It's the electron that is in every single one of your 60 - 90 TRILLION cells. It is the energy that allows your legs to walk, your heart to beat and your fingers to type. It was measured by a gentleman named Harold Saxton Burr in his book "Blueprint for Immortality", which was published in 1972. Using sophisticated electronic measuring devices.

This is science, it is not religion. In fact, Mr. Burr's publication was largely suppressed due to the fact that it questioned the traditional role of mortality as it fit into the confines of religion.

It is not necessary to BELIEVE any of this, because it exists independently of your belief, or mine. But it would definitely be to your advantage to not be so stubbornly stuck in your own personal dogma and open your mind a little. just sayin'

20yrsinBranson
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:39 PM
 
719 posts, read 829,188 times
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Originally Posted by logline View Post
Sarah: You don't realize that you just made my argument for me. The fact that science improved our understanding that the Earth is round shows that the old, tired, superstitious beliefs that it's flat must be given up forever. It is YOU who are holding on to ancient beliefs, not me. You seem to think that I believe science is infallible and not prone to human mistakes. You'd be wrong. Science, by its very nature, is meant to be constantly updated and improved with ever more data and experimentation. When one argues that there "may be a possibility of ghosts" because science hasn't met your threshold of disbelief yet, all you're doing is giving validity to those people who are shouting "1+1=47!" When you assume there is a polar opposite argument for every fact (and that all "opinions" are valid for some reason), you only give plausibility to the crazies of this world. That's what I mean by "Fox News logic". People go out of their way to raise FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) about anything that doesn't meet a predetermined agenda. For example, "Gee, those Atheists must not be truly American because they hate God and this country was built on religious freedom." That's the kind of crazy I'm talking about. It would be like me saying "SouthernSarah may not be a redneck hick with no brain, but I don't know. Who's to say one way or another?" See how that works to confuse the issue? That's FUD. (For the record, I don't actually believe that about you, I was just making a point) You seem like a nice enough person from what I've read in other posts.

Jonathan: There is no "your" reality or "my reality" when it comes to making big claims on the existence of things such as ghosts or psychic ability. There is only one true reality. We may take incorrect views of what we see as reality (e.g. optical illusions), but there is only one empirical truth about how things really are. Optical illusions can eventually be explained by science. The Sun will never revolve around the Earth, no matter how much it looks like it from the ground. Our perceptions of that reality have been skewed by our ancestors, parents, religion and a bad, perpetuating culture of ignorance. I fault our brain's ability to make snap judgements which seem correct at first, but later turn out to be false. These are defense mechanisms that kept us alive when we may have mistaken the shadow of a bush for a man-eating tiger. It makes sense that we delude ourselves, but that doesn't mean there isn't a single reality that is the ultimate reality. A bush is still a bush. We just tend to skew it because most humans are fallible in their logic or too lazy to find the real truth. BTW, psychics ARE like a faucet: a broken, rusty, cobwebbed faucet that never works. If water does happen to come out of it once or twice, it's not a miracle, it's just chance. Randi always has psychics make some excuse as to why they can't perform their "gifts" when put to the test. They say it's because the "energy" is not right or the environment is not perfect. It's all a big scam. Occam's Razor strikes again. I just hope the De Silva Institute didn't charge you for that test.

That being said, I do agree with a lot of your other posts non woo-woo related!
LOL Thanks and we can just agree to disagree on this thread.
I like your posts as well.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:42 PM
 
2,955 posts, read 1,940,769 times
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Wait Branson, you just changed your argument from "energy" being a woo-woo entity that exists after someone dies and appears on Macgeek's photos to the same "energy" inherent in every atom in the universe. I agree with the latter, it's the former I have big problems with.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
7,347 posts, read 5,772,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logline View Post
Wait Branson, you just changed your argument from "energy" being a woo-woo entity that exists after someone dies and appears on Macgeek's photos to the same "energy" inherent in every atom in the universe. I agree with the latter, it's the former I have big problems with.

"It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Tatooine, A Long, Long Time Ago.
As much as I'm a skeptic, I kind of want to believe that one. I don't, of course. But I like that one more than most woo-woo stuff.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Home!
8,696 posts, read 7,071,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logline View Post
When one argues that there "may be a possibility of ghosts" because science hasn't met your threshold of disbelief yet, all you're doing is giving validity to those people who are shouting "1+1=47!"
I fault our brain's ability to make snap judgements which seem correct at first, but later turn out to be false. These are defense mechanisms that kept us alive when we may have mistaken the shadow of a bush for a man-eating tiger. It makes sense that we delude ourselves, but that doesn't mean there isn't a single reality that is the ultimate reality. A bush is still a bush. We just tend to skew it because most humans are fallible in their logic or too lazy to find the real truth.
Science hasn't met THE threshold of disbelief about ghosts. 1+1 has been proven, so the people shouting that it equals 47 are just plain wrong. This has been physically proven. I don't see that comparison. Which is not to say I believe or not in the supernatural, I just don't think there is enough evidence either way.

All that aside, I believe that life would be SO extremely boring if we all had only scientific beliefs. Yuck. As far as being "doomed" because their are others who believe differently, nah. Doomsday would have already been here if that were the case. Religion has been around since the beginning of time and so has belief in the supernatural. Things have progressed regardless, right? In fact, maybe that is what makes the world go round. If there are those who believe in God and that makes them fear consequences of ill behavior, then good. Who cares?

Things have happened to me that I felt were beyond explanation. Good things. Thought-provoking things. For me, I realize it was most likely a manifestation of my mind (let's face it, THERE is a place that is unexplained!)but it worked to keep me straight. If this works for a multitude of other people...good! Great!

I'll leave the boring stuff up to the scientists. I do kind of feel sad for scientist types who have those minds that only see black and white. No colors.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Vegas, baby, Vegas!
3,164 posts, read 3,488,568 times
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I am going to mount another webcam facing toward THIS camera, and get this from another angle.
That may at least give me a CLUE what is happening...

Jonathan
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
7,347 posts, read 5,772,124 times
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Originally Posted by kimba01 View Post
I'll leave the boring stuff up to the scientists. I do kind of feel sad for scientist types who have those minds that only see black and white. No colors.
Are you kidding? Science is the best way of looking at things. The scientifically-minded look up at the sky and see the awesome spectacle of the universe as it continues to unfold before our eyes. Me, I see creation through the lenses and mirrors of a telescope. Not some POS book written by misogynist big-beard wackos centuries ago.

Every day in the scientific world brings some wonderful new idea. Or a challenge to a previously held idea. In science, there is progress. I have no greater respect than for the scientists who every day make our lives a better place.

It is the superstitious unscientific people I pity. They spend their entire lives not really understanding the how and why of things. They spend way too much of their time hoping and working for an afterlife which isn't going to happen.

The scientific-types discard all that mumbo-jumbo and live their lives to the fullest. We get 25,000 days, give or take. Spend them wisely.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Home!
8,696 posts, read 7,071,930 times
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Not kidding. It is your best way. I don't want to look at every little thing under a microscope and feel the need to know why or how. I find the beauty in what is. Now, that is not to say I don't wonder about how things came to be and that I don't delve into that. I can enjoy the "awesome spectacle of the universe" without wondering how it got there. Pure unencumbered awe, without the how and why.

I also respect scientists. I also respect that other people have their views too. I don't agree with all of them, for sure, but to each their own. I am not going to berate your opinion of what you consider the "best". It just isn't important to me that you don't see things as I do. I am aware enough that not everyone thinks alike and I am ok with that. As long as they are not out there committing crimes, it just doesn't bother me. I don't view hope as negative. Just aware that you don't always get what you hope for. I prefer not to be narrow-minded, I learn so much more that way. Works for me.

BTW, there is no ONE person alive who knows whether there is an afterlife or not. But that is a whole other thread!
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
7,347 posts, read 5,772,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimba01 View Post
I can enjoy the "awesome spectacle of the universe" without wondering how it got there. Pure unencumbered awe, without the how and why.
You are made of star stuff -- the carbon and calcium and hydrogen and oxygen and everything else that makes you, you, came from some star exploding somewhere in the distant reaches of time.

All we are and everything around us, came from stars.

AND, life in general has some innate desire to reach space to spread throughout the universe. Spiders have been found in space, carried out of Earth's gravitational pull on gossamer threads. As have bacteria. And, of course, us.

All of us should wonder why things got where they are, and why things behave the way they do. We'd be a better people for it.
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