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Old 06-23-2012, 10:01 AM
 
322 posts, read 232,572 times
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As an example of deals that can be found, here's a used Hayward system including a wireless interior remote and a spa side remote control currently offered at $85 ($50 + $35 S&H) if anyone is interested. The guy has 100% + feedback and you have 45 day eBay buyer protection. This is a discontinued model, but it is cheap enough and parts are still readily available.

Hayward PSC2104 Deluxe Pool & Spa Control | eBay

Be sure to bid at least $1000 though since that is the C-D reported minimum required to get into any name brand pool controller.

If you want to get into a pool controller cheap, watch eBay, craigslist, do online searches, put word out to pool builders in the area of what you are interested in that may be bargain priced (new but discontinued old inventory, business closeout sales, used systems from people upgrading, etc). There are always deals around if you take the time and make the effort to search them out.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:50 AM
 
7,338 posts, read 3,191,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV2ndHome View Post
The conversion from electric power consumption to hp is not as simple as you wish it to be. Electric motors are far from 100% efficient. Look at the specs of various brands and configurations of motors all of the same hp and you will find varying electric loads among them, as they won't all have the same efficiency, and they will all be significantly higher than 745 watts per hp.



Early in this thread another poster posted a video that's been around forever of a demonstration of VS being more energy efficient compared to a smaller single speed pump when both are pumping the same volume at the same pressure in the same set up. Here it is again:

Variable speed pool pump efficiency test Pool Technicians 760-537-0289 - YouTube

Obviously you are as good of engineer as you are real estate bottom caller. For those who understand, no further explanation is necessary; for those who don't understand, no further explanation is possible.
Of course there are efficency factors.. But they generally range in the 20 to 50% range. I would expect induction machines to run around 70% at 1HP. SF is simply that the machines are not generally designed right at the name plate level but somewhere above it.

Suggest you listen to that video again. What he really claimed was something less than a 20% efficency improvement. And I will instantly save you half the operating cost of either system. Just buy your power at $.11 rather than $.25. That did not give you a hint that the guy may have been loading the numbers a bit?

Check out Ecopumps who has a very similar discussion simply using a two speed induction machine with a larger speed spread. Sounds like the same pitch does it not? Even makes MBAs point that the things get much quieter when run at those settings.


Quote:

You aren't even close on your numbers. You are comparing turnkey custom jobs on better systems to DIY installs of X10 which is an apples to oranges comparison. One can do DIY on better systems, or one can "make other guys rich" by hiring them to do a custom X10 install. I've found Jandy components on eBay and in closeout situations for a small fraction of MSRP just as you've found cheaper than MSRP X10 stuff, and I do my own install work just as you propose on your X10. Yes I still have a little more in my Jandy than you have in your X10, but it is designed specifically for pool/spa applications, meaning it can do a whole lot more a whole lot easier, and it does so reliably. For example, remote layouts are designed with pool/spa use in mind, so not only is it easy to turn on the spa heater, but it's also easy to adjust the temperature setting, and some remotes are made water resistant as well in knowing the environment of their intended use. Most people that can afford a pool and a controller are not going accept such a major step down as an X10 would be for only a few hundred dollars in initial savings. And there are plenty of other brands/models of pool controllers cheaper than Jandy that are much better than X10.

X10 was popular many years ago when people were first interested in home automation simply because it was cheap and there wasn't much of anything else out there. It is notorious for being unreliable and many components failing fairly quickly. If you are going to suggest a generic home automation system for pool use, at least step up to 2nd generation technology like Insteon or Z-wave. X10 is like suggesting someone install a window crank in their car as an alternative to a/c as a method of controlling temperature.
X10 remains popular for certain functions. Simple on off stuff for instance. A properly put together home system is still quite reliable and reasonably priced. I have a number of modules that date back well over 20 years and still work well. In fact in that time frame I think I have lost one module. I find it useful for things like controlling the fountain in the front courtyard where I don't want to do anything but remotely turn it on and off. I also saw a recent job where the guy did the drape closers in his theatre room with X10.

Sure you can go to Insteon and similar. You would also pay $119. for that switch module.

And the modules are easily hacked into other systems if you wish.

If I wished to do something as complex as a full pool control system I would go to wifi rather than any of the others as the communication media.

The Hayward controller is being offered with a minimum bid of $50. And you can go out on the web and pick up the spare PWB for the unit for a mere $410.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
583 posts, read 719,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV2ndHome View Post
Salt chlorine generators are favored by many due to their needing a minimal amount of time. Your research will show there are a few trade offs, but bottom line is they are a very good option for many.

Personally I use bleach for my chlorine source, injected with a Stenner peristaltic metering pump connected to a small drum that holds about 15 gal, which will run me almost a month before refilling.
Does anyone have any experience with UV systems?

UV Pool | How UV Works

UV Pool Systems | SpectraLight Ultraviolet

Supposedly, you can drastically reduce your chlorine levels. Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
377 posts, read 332,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant View Post
The motors used in variable speed pool pumps are permanent magnet, brushless DC motors, not the regular AC induction motors used in single speed pumps. This makes them about 30% more efficient than a single-speed motor when operating at rated output, which is likely more than enough to offset the inefficiency introduced by running them at less than rated output. Perhaps more important is the fact thatsince they run so much cooler, than can be totally enclosed, which makes them very quiet. Mine is about as loud as an aquarium pump when running at low speed (power consumption 300 watts), while still flowing enough water to operate a suction side pool vacuum. A 1/2 hp single speed pump is going to be a lot louder, and consume at least 50% more electricity than a variable speed pump set to the same speed as mine on low setting.
Do you know whether you can safely enclose pumps that were initially installed without enclosures? I have 2 vs pumps, and if enclosing would make them more quiet, I would be very interested in doing this.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:33 PM
 
7,338 posts, read 3,191,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash Can View Post
Does anyone have any experience with UV systems?

UV Pool | How UV Works

UV Pool Systems | SpectraLight Ultraviolet

Supposedly, you can drastically reduce your chlorine levels. Any feedback would be appreciated.
The concensus on TFP - which has a couple of good threads on the subject - is that it is simply redundant with chlorination and therefore adds little value. The argument is that you still have to chlorinate so why not just chlorinate well and be done with it?

You might consider a pump system or a liquidator system which take a lot of the work out of the chlorine.

Read the involved threads at Trouble Free Pools...know more than you care to in a couple of hours.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:38 PM
 
7,338 posts, read 3,191,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco6163 View Post
Do you know whether you can safely enclose pumps that were initially installed without enclosures? I have 2 vs pumps, and if enclosing would make them more quiet, I would be very interested in doing this.
VS pumps generally are totally enclosed...that means their cases don't have cooling holes or fans pumping cooling air. If you can hear them they are probably not in their slow mode. You ought to be able to run them slow whenever you are around. Run them fast at night and just annoy the neighbors.

You can enclose them further if you are reasonably careful. Just keep the enclosure well away from the pumps and make sure there is lots of airflow. Like a big box with big holes that fits over the whole area.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
377 posts, read 332,574 times
Reputation: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
VS pumps generally are totally enclosed...that means their cases don't have cooling holes or fans pumping cooling air. If you can hear them they are probably not in their slow mode. You ought to be able to run them slow whenever you are around. Run them fast at night and just annoy the neighbors.

You can enclose them further if you are reasonably careful. Just keep the enclosure well away from the pumps and make sure there is lots of airflow. Like a big box with big holes that fits over the whole area.
Thanks for the reply. Mine never run in slow mode. I think I need to have a chat with my pool guy about that. I also think running the pump at night is cheaper than during the day, but I think he has the pump running during the day because of the salt water generator.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
583 posts, read 719,447 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coco6163 View Post
I also think running the pump at night is cheaper than during the day, but I think he has the pump running during the day because of the salt water generator.
You can get away with running it at night during the winter, but it needs to run during the day in the summer.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
377 posts, read 332,574 times
Reputation: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash Can View Post
You can get away with running it at night during the winter, but it needs to run during the day in the summer.
That's how he has done it. I like him, and even if I wanted to run the pump differently, I was willing to trust him. Thanks for confirmation, though.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:37 PM
 
7,338 posts, read 3,191,960 times
Reputation: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trash Can View Post
You can get away with running it at night during the winter, but it needs to run during the day in the summer.
If this is a VS running at full speed it probably needs to run 4 hours a day at the most. My fixed speed easily keeps my pool up in two hours a day. My pool is covered so it is not the standard deal. .

What it should be doing is running at a slow speed all day...but then it would not be audible.

So it does not appear to compute.
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