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ahhhh good ol shelly lol I agree with you 100% NLV......put your money on shely....
I had a lady working for me before I retired....she came to us about 15 tears ago for a supervisors job.
She had worked in Casino Marketing for Shelly and she held the record for being fired 3 times in the same day by shelly and she worked there another year after that tile the demolition
Throw away the money, and Texas Hold'em isn't any more difficult than playing "war." My stated point, which you have of course ignored, is that if money wasn't involved NOBODY would play these games.
When was the last time friends got together on a Friday evening and played a spirited game of roulette? And when was the last time casinos offered action on Scrabble? Games of skill aren't played in casinos, for obvious reasons.
I would love to try my luck against the masses in a game of scrabble. I would think more than few people would like to enter a who wants to be a millionaire competition...or to wager on a jeopardy like game in vegas.
why dont the casinos offer this? can they make money off it?
At least with Hold 'em, the money (the risk of losing it, the promise of winning it), Is an integral part of the game. Without the money, it's not so much boring as pointless. Why bluff at a pot when there's nothing to win?
With cash on the line, as opposed to board games that are just played for fun, there are real consequences. While I fully admit that this can cause people real problems if they're stupid/careless/addicted, it's just that fact that makes gabling exciting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV
Throw away the money, and Texas Hold'em isn't any more difficult than playing "war." My stated point, which you have of course ignored, is that if money wasn't involved NOBODY would play these games.
When was the last time friends got together on a Friday evening and played a spirited game of roulette? And when was the last time casinos offered action on Scrabble? Games of skill aren't played in casinos, for obvious reasons.
Throw away the money, and Texas Hold'em isn't any more difficult than playing "war." My stated point, which you have of course ignored, is that if money wasn't involved NOBODY would play these games.
That's a specious argument. Money is an integral part of the "game." It is just a way to keep score. How many games would be played if there was no way to keep score? In that vein, how many people would play Monopoly to just roll dice and move their figure around a board if (ersatz) money wasn't involved?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV
Games of skill aren't played in casinos, for obvious reasons.
Another ridiculous statement that you've now repeated in this thread. So you don't think poker is a game of skill? A federal judge has just disagreed with you:
A federal judge ruled Tuesday that poker is more a game of skill than chance ....
The judge also cited a study that analyzed 103 million hands of Texas Hold'em poker, where 75 percent of poker hands ended when one player induced his opponents to fold so that no cards were revealed.
"Other studies have found that skilled players defeated unskilled players both in simulations and in real-world play," he said.
Moreover, your statement that casinos don't offer games of skill for "obvious reasons" fails on another level. Casinos can make money on such games the same way they make money on poker: by charging a rake or vig on the games they offer.
In fact, it is so obvious, that I'm surprised you didn't think of it.
Again, and not unsurprisingly, you're missing my point. The actual play of Texas Hold'em takes no skill at all. I don't give a damn what a federal judge has to say on the matter. After all, many federal judges are idiots who think corporations are people.
Texas Hold'em: You get two cards, and then watch what kind of hand unfolds. Big whoop-dee-do. Blackjack is a HARD game to play compared to Hold'em. And that's why anyone who's any good at blackjack is asked to leave by the casino. Casinos don't want skilled players playing their one and only game with any skill involved. In fact, they would be VERY happy to remove blackjack altogether and replace it with more baccarat -- because that's another game of pure chance.
Casinos love Hold'em because the game itself is one of sheer dumb luck. Sorry I'm pooping on your vocation, but that's how it is.
And for the nth time, casinos will never offer action on contract bridge, chess or cribbage. It would be a liability to offer a game of skill in the casino, vigorish or not. Casinos do not want chess grand masters trolling their floors, fleecing their patrons. It would be bad for business. They want nice, safe, "dumb luck" games like roulette and Hold'em, where nobody can accuse anyone else of being a "ringer."
Don't get me wrong. I'm GLAD that you play. I hope you and everyone you know continues to play. It keeps our property taxes low. But poker is not brain surgery, no matter how much you want it to be...
Maybe you should stay in the kitchen and stay out of the casino.
Blackjack is an absolutely mindless game. The absolute optimal way to play is to get a basic strategy card that matches the rules at the table your playing, and follow it to the letter. Any "thinking" you may try to apply to the game will only reduce your odds. It's utterly formulaic. You can try counting, but that's completely formulaic also. This is why Blackjack is beatable.
There is a lot of math involved in Hold'em also, but there also the skill of betting, and reacting to the information conveyed in by other players in their betting and other actions. This is very much NOT formulaic. This is also why the game doesn't work without the money involved, the skill is (obviously) in the betting. When played for play money, the lack of consequences changes the betting in ridiculous ways.
The reason they don't get rid of skilled poker players but do get rid of skilled Blackjack players is all about how the casinos make money on each game. Blackjack is house banked, meaning the players are playing against the house. Every dollar the player wins comes out of the casnio's bottom line. Of course the math in random play (ie non-counting) insures that the house will win in the long run, and they have the financial depth to outlast any player's lucky streak. Of course counting turns this upside down. By counting a player can turn the math in his favor, and the game becomes a long term loser for the house. That's why the 86 "skilled players" (meaning counters.)
Poker is completely different. It isn't a house banked game. The players are playing against themselves. The house has no money at risk in the game. They take a rake off each pot (traditionally 10% to $4, but I've seen places pushing it to $5.) It's an annuity for them. They make a little money no matter who wins the hand. So they don't care who's a skilled player or not.
BTW, poker makes them very little money (by % of casino revenue.) The have it mostly as an accomodation to the players, hoping that they'll play the house banked games (BJ, craps, roulette, baccarrat, slots, VP, etc.) while they're in the casino. They make much more money off of BJ than poker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV
Again, and not unsurprisingly, you're missing my point. The actual play of Texas Hold'em takes no skill at all. I don't give a damn what a federal judge has to say on the matter. After all, many federal judges are idiots who think corporations are people.
Texas Hold'em: You get two cards, and then watch what kind of hand unfolds. Big whoop-dee-do. Blackjack is a HARD game to play compared to Hold'em. And that's why anyone who's any good at blackjack is asked to leave by the casino. Casinos don't want skilled players playing their one and only game with any skill involved. In fact, they would be VERY happy to remove blackjack altogether and replace it with more baccarat -- because that's another game of pure chance.
Casinos love Hold'em because the game itself is one of sheer dumb luck. Sorry I'm pooping on your vocation, but that's how it is.
And for the nth time, casinos will never offer action on contract bridge, chess or cribbage. It would be a liability to offer a game of skill in the casino, vigorish or not. Casinos do not want chess grand masters trolling their floors, fleecing their patrons. It would be bad for business. They want nice, safe, "dumb luck" games like roulette and Hold'em, where nobody can accuse anyone else of being a "ringer."
Don't get me wrong. I'm GLAD that you play. I hope you and everyone you know continues to play. It keeps our property taxes low. But poker is not brain surgery, no matter how much you want it to be...
My husband and I love Las Vegas. We've gone there several times and not once have we gambled. Everytime we go there we spend at least 8 days there. We've checked out the Grand Canyon, we've taken a tour of Los Angeles, and we love just going from hotel to hotel along the strip (including downtown vegas). I can't wait to go again.
My husband and I love Las Vegas. We've gone there several times and not once have we gambled. Everytime we go there we spend at least 8 days there. We've checked out the Grand Canyon, we've taken a tour of Los Angeles, and we love just going from hotel to hotel along the strip (including downtown vegas). I can't wait to go again.
This is us, pretty much...........
We have been coming to Las Vegas since the 70s. We have stayed at more than a dozen different strip hotels during all months of the year and a few off the strip. Lately we have been coming out three times a year. We only come for three or four days because we are self-employed and find it hard to leave the business for longer that that. On average, we put on 200-300 miles in a rental car. We go elsewhere on short trips too.
We are now in our 60s and our income is very good. We own property in Las Vegas and will eventually spend our winters there, God willing. One of our daughters was married there.
We used to spend a little on slots but, in the past four or five years, have virtually not gambled at all.
Do I have a problem with gambling? Not at all. I very much enjoy video poker and blackjack, but with time our priorities and interests have changed.
If I was retired and spending my winters there, I would likely not gamble at all.
Again, and not unsurprisingly, you're missing my point. The actual play of Texas Hold'em takes no skill at all. I don't give a damn what a federal judge has to say on the matter. After all, many federal judges are idiots who think corporations are people.
Texas Hold'em: You get two cards, and then watch what kind of hand unfolds. Big whoop-dee-do. Blackjack is a HARD game to play compared to Hold'em. And that's why anyone who's any good at blackjack is asked to leave by the casino. Casinos don't want skilled players playing their one and only game with any skill involved. In fact, they would be VERY happy to remove blackjack altogether and replace it with more baccarat -- because that's another game of pure chance.
Casinos love Hold'em because the game itself is one of sheer dumb luck. Sorry I'm pooping on your vocation, but that's how it is.
And for the nth time, casinos will never offer action on contract bridge, chess or cribbage. It would be a liability to offer a game of skill in the casino, vigorish or not. Casinos do not want chess grand masters trolling their floors, fleecing their patrons. It would be bad for business. They want nice, safe, "dumb luck" games like roulette and Hold'em, where nobody can accuse anyone else of being a "ringer."
Don't get me wrong. I'm GLAD that you play. I hope you and everyone you know continues to play. It keeps our property taxes low. But poker is not brain surgery, no matter how much you want it to be...
I enjoy your posts and discussion, but you are way way off here about Hold'em and Blackjack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW
Maybe you should stay in the kitchen and stay out of the casino.
Blackjack is an absolutely mindless game. The absolute optimal way to play is to get a basic strategy card that matches the rules at the table your playing, and follow it to the letter. Any "thinking" you may try to apply to the game will only reduce your odds. It's utterly formulaic. You can try counting, but that's completely formulaic also. This is why Blackjack is beatable.
There is a lot of math involved in Hold'em also, but there also the skill of betting, and reacting to the information conveyed in by other players in their betting and other actions. This is very much NOT formulaic. This is also why the game doesn't work without the money involved, the skill is (obviously) in the betting. When played for play money, the lack of consequences changes the betting in ridiculous ways.
The reason they don't get rid of skilled poker players but do get rid of skilled Blackjack players is all about how the casinos make money on each game. Blackjack is house banked, meaning the players are playing against the house. Every dollar the player wins comes out of the casnio's bottom line. Of course the math in random play (ie non-counting) insures that the house will win in the long run, and they have the financial depth to outlast any player's lucky streak. Of course counting turns this upside down. By counting a player can turn the math in his favor, and the game becomes a long term loser for the house. That's why the 86 "skilled players" (meaning counters.)
Poker is completely different. It isn't a house banked game. The players are playing against themselves. The house has no money at risk in the game. They take a rake off each pot (traditionally 10% to $4, but I've seen places pushing it to $5.) It's an annuity for them. They make a little money no matter who wins the hand. So they don't care who's a skilled player or not.
BTW, poker makes them very little money (by % of casino revenue.) The have it mostly as an accomodation to the players, hoping that they'll play the house banked games (BJ, craps, roulette, baccarrat, slots, VP, etc.) while they're in the casino. They make much more money off of BJ than poker.
Everything said here is accurate. $5 is pretty strip standard and some places take another buck for bad beat jackpots.
On topic, I enjoy the gambling aspect of Vegas, but if it continues to develop more and more things for the nongambler to do, especially when disposable income is tighter, the town will enjoy more and more success.
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