Here comes an express train - Gambling Taxes (Las Vegas: real estate, foreclosures)

[olecapt]

From the RJ -

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Teachers call for gaming tax increase
The state teachers union announced today it will launch an initiative to increase the gaming tax by 3 percentage points and allocate the revenue for public schools. The Nevada State Education Association board voted Saturday to present the measure to voters on the November 2008 ballot.

If successful in two successive elections, the measure would increase the gaming tax for Nevada’s largest casino to 9.75 percent from 6.75 percent.
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That is the second propostion to up the gaming tax headed for the ballot. The other is from the PISTOL group and proposes to do away will all state property tax in favor of upping the gaming tax.

Both groups have the where-with-all to get their propositions on the ballot. So what happens? Do the gaming boys put together their own proposition?

Hey I would think it is guaranteed at this point that the gaming tax is going up. The big question is will personal taxes come down? Betcha.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by olecapt

The big question is will personal taxes come down? Betcha.

Other than sales taxes Capt - what other "personal" taxes are you referring to? Property tax perhaps? Real estate transfer tax? These types of things?

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Other than sales taxes Capt - what other "personal" taxes are you referring to? Property tax perhaps? Real estate transfer tax? These types of things?

Should have been more specific. I believe the PISTOL proposition is to do away with property taxes completely.

I would expect that a Gaming originated propositon would impact that tax...though likely not the sales tax. The transfer tax however might be in play. You don't want to shoot at taxes that are paid by the tourists.

Give some to the property owner...give some to the teachers and try and steer a course that minimizes the payout without pushing either the Teacher or the PISTOL proposition to the front.

Boy is that a tough piece of planning.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by olecapt

I believe the PISTOL proposition is to do away with property taxes completely.

I would expect that a Gaming originated propositon would impact that tax...though likely not the sales tax. The transfer tax however might be in play. You don't want to shoot at taxes that are paid by the tourists.

Thanks - now I understand where you are going. IMO, the proposal (PISTOL) could reduce property taxes but, honestly? I can't see them being totally eliminated (I WOULD BE HAPPY IF I'M WRONG THOUGH)

Obviously, something needs to happen - and fairly quickly. You know how much I travel - it amazes people when I tell them of the financial woes for Nevada - they have this impression that gaming takes care of everything -

I make sort of a joke when traveling - "Come to LV and help our economy!" I usually get the snickers - then I lay it on them - I ALWAYS see the heads shaking in amazement

[garth]

How realistic is that PISTOL initiative and who is PISTOL? I assume that it stands for something, but I don't have any idea what it would be.

If there's any chance for it, I can't express how happy I'd be if it passed. Any benefit that can be passed from the gaming industry, without running them out of the State, IMO is a good thing. It's already kept income taxes a bay and it would be nice to do the same with property taxes . . . again as long as the gaming industry can maintain a return on their investment.

So, is there any chance greater than an ice cube's chance in he!! of it passing . . . and who's PISTOL?

I've never been a fan of any tax systems. and any benefit that can be passed from the gaming industry, without running them out of the State,

[olecapt]

Nahhh GD that propositon is exact. No more property taxes and increase school and road funding. Socks it all to the gaming tax.

The Teacher thing is much more modest but aso socks it to the gaming tax.

So it is try and beat both...unlikely I would think...or find some more appealing alternative.

[garth]

I googled PISTOL and found out what it stand for . . . "People's Initiative to Stop the Taking of Our Land." It's the name of an initiative back in '06 that involved eminent domain issues and other things. From what I read it ran into problems.

So, are the backers of that old initiative, which btw appeared to be written with some big problems, now writing this tax initiative? If so, I hope they learned their lesson and keep it simple rather than complicating it with a bunch of stuff that will end them up in court with a chance of the initiative being thrown out.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by garth

I googled PISTOL and found out what it stand for . . . "People's Initiative to Stop the Taking of Our Land." It's the name of an initiative back in '06 that involved eminent domain issues and other things. From what I read it ran into problems.

So, are the backers of that old initiative, which btw appeared to be written with some big problems, now writing this tax initiative? If so, I hope they learned their lesson and keep it simple rather than complicating it with a bunch of stuff that will end them up in court with a chance of the initiative being thrown out.

Actually they pretty much got their way. And they had the needed muscle to get this gaming tax on the ballot.

It is possible that all or part of any of these can get thrown out. But they then just come back next time.

And the Teachers will certainly get theirs on the ballot.

So the battle is declared.

I would think the gamers have to respond.

[ackackack]

Since the Casino industry likely has more money (and influence) than God, I would expect them to create some really interesting and effective ways of attacking and defeating these proposals. I would also expect the media to jump in and help them every step of the way. I have always thought the casinos should shoulder more of the burden than they do, like they do everywhere else in the world.

Like Greatday, I am always surprised when I travel or talk to family in other states about our local tax structure. They are usually surprised to hear that we have any fiscal troubles. The general opinion is that with all the gaming, we should be awash in tax revenue. I can't understand why we aren't.

Even if these measures make it to a ballot, can they pass twice? The casinos will win, they always do. 3% seems like a high increase to ask for, considering the current rate is only 6.75%.

As to the other measure, great timing. The valley is freaking out over home prices and inventories, so why not instantly get a bunch of voters on your side by tying it to property taxes? Again the amount of increase is insane, much higher than the teacher's request. This one will be interesting. How many sectors of local real estate will get involved in support of this? Would builders? But raise gaming taxes to the national average? As much as I hate the casinos and like to blame them for everything bad that's wrong with Las Vegas, I wouldn't think of voting for this one. Can you imagine the amount of revenue the state would suddenly have? What about all the wasteful ways they would come up with to spend it?

I really can't see any of these passing twice and becoming law. If they did, I'm certain that the Supreme Court would find a way to stop it. In any case, the casinos are loaded and are very good at defeating these types of ballot measures. If the Teachers Union get the 3% they are asking for, let's hope the state is not as stupid with it as they were with the tobacco money and waste it all on scholarships. I haven't seen an influx of college graduates thanks to the Millenium Scholarship.

[jfkIII]

Originally Posted by ackackack

Since the Casino industry likely has more money (and influence) than God, I would expect them to create some really interesting and effective ways of attacking and defeating these proposals.

Are you saying that PISTOL will get shot down and the casinos will pull the trigger? [ALL puns intended! ]

Seriously, with foreclosures being on the increase and such a problem out there with them...that has to cut down on revenue from property taxes, I would think. Is this gaming tax increase a solution for that? If the trend continues and worstens, how will the lost property tax revenue then be made up?