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Old 04-16-2013, 08:28 PM
 
13,477 posts, read 9,593,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
I agree. One of my honors students did not make it into LVA's program. They definitely need more seats. Any child who meets the requirements should have the opportunity.
Wouldn't it be nice if they reformatted the entire district so that the majority of schools were magnet programs ?They give the teachers at those schools much more latitude to actually TEACH, and the curriculum is designed to appeal to a student's particular area of interest.

I believe we should also have ESL specialty schools and special education schools. I was married to a former behavior management specialist with the Deveraux Institute who was vehemently against mainstreaming special education students. His experience was that mainstreaming special ed kids robbed both the special ed student, and his regular classmates of a quality education. He had twelve years of experience, so I'm inclined to trust his opinion.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,638,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
Do you bother to read my posts or do you just make assumptions about what you think I said? Or maybe it just doesn't fit into your argument, so you just ignore it altogether?

Channel 8 just did a report on the magnet program at Clark. The students from that program were accepted into Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, etc. The kids in this program are getting a first-rate education - now, by your definition.
I read the link. I did not see the Channel 8 report.

Yes, kids in the magnet schools are getting into the top-tier universities. But in what numbers?

And here's where I think we'll diverge on this point, probably not finding common ground. My favorite Ben Franklin quote is, "There was never a good knife made of bad steel."

CCSD is bad steel. The educational culture stinks from top to bottom. CCSD isn't managed so much as it's mis-managed.

How many of those kids in our magnet schools attend the best colleges? And how many do you think would attend the best colleges if they attended excellent schools in an excellent school system? I think that number would be SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Excellent schools send between 15-20% of their student body to prestige universities.

I simply do not see how we can use "excellent" and "Las Vegas school" in the same sentence. CCSD is bad steel. It's never going to make the sharpest knife in the drawer.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:15 PM
 
3,513 posts, read 4,355,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
I read the link. I did not see the Channel 8 report.

Yes, kids in the magnet schools are getting into the top-tier universities. But in what numbers?

And here's where I think we'll diverge on this point, probably not finding common ground. My favorite Ben Franklin quote is, "There was never a good knife made of bad steel."

CCSD is bad steel. The educational culture stinks from top to bottom. CCSD isn't managed so much as it's mis-managed.

How many of those kids in our magnet schools attend the best colleges? And how many do you think would attend the best colleges if they attended excellent schools in an excellent school system? I think that number would be SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Excellent schools send between 15-20% of their student body to prestige universities.

I simply do not see how we can use "excellent" and "Las Vegas school" in the same sentence. CCSD is bad steel. It's never going to make the sharpest knife in the drawer.
That's a bad analogy. The "steel" is the individual student and we have plenty of "good knives".

I offered several metrics by which schools can be judged as excellent.

* Nationally rated programs that are in the top 0.4%

* Blue Ribbon Designations

* My own firsthand experience

You have chosen to disregard them all and don't offer any evidence to the contrary except your feelings on what you think based on a limited exposure. I am in the middle of it am am an expert in my field. I am telling you there are programs where kids are getting an excellent education.

Do we have a Deerfield? No. Do some programs offer an excellent education? Yes.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:21 PM
 
13,477 posts, read 9,593,751 times
Reputation: 17430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
I read the link. I did not see the Channel 8 report.

Yes, kids in the magnet schools are getting into the top-tier universities. But in what numbers?

And here's where I think we'll diverge on this point, probably not finding common ground. My favorite Ben Franklin quote is, "There was never a good knife made of bad steel."

CCSD is bad steel. The educational culture stinks from top to bottom. CCSD isn't managed so much as it's mis-managed.

How many of those kids in our magnet schools attend the best colleges? And how many do you think would attend the best colleges if they attended excellent schools in an excellent school system? I think that number would be SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Excellent schools send between 15-20% of their student body to prestige universities.

I simply do not see how we can use "excellent" and "Las Vegas school" in the same sentence. CCSD is bad steel. It's never going to make the sharpest knife in the drawer.
You're being a snob. George Bush attended a prestige university, and he was a C student. CCSD is plagued by cronyism and in some cases, outright incompetence, but it does have it's highlights.

A prestige university is paying for a label. My youngest brat is at the CIA in New York. It costs a ton of money. He could have an equivalent education in culinary arts at CSN for less than a quarter of the price of the CIA. In fact, he spent his first quarter at CIA instructing other students on the basics that he learned at NW Tech in the culinary program while simultaneously maintaining a high grade point average.

Last edited by NLVgal; 04-16-2013 at 09:44 PM.. Reason: Typo.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:29 PM
 
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LOL, George Bush graduated Harvard because his father had a hand in that.

What are the SAT scores coming out of these Las Vegas high schools, I wonder?
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:46 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,134,962 times
Reputation: 5398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
I read the link. I did not see the Channel 8 report.

Yes, kids in the magnet schools are getting into the top-tier universities. But in what numbers?

And here's where I think we'll diverge on this point, probably not finding common ground. My favorite Ben Franklin quote is, "There was never a good knife made of bad steel."

CCSD is bad steel. The educational culture stinks from top to bottom. CCSD isn't managed so much as it's mis-managed.

How many of those kids in our magnet schools attend the best colleges? And how many do you think would attend the best colleges if they attended excellent schools in an excellent school system? I think that number would be SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Excellent schools send between 15-20% of their student body to prestige universities.

I simply do not see how we can use "excellent" and "Las Vegas school" in the same sentence. CCSD is bad steel. It's never going to make the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Your standard is really not appropriate to a large public school system.

While your fondest for the best and brightest is noted they really are not the issue.

The real issue is the middle 60% or such. The top 20% will take care of themselves. There is not a whole lot you are going to do for the bottom 20%. So the question is how you do on the ones in the middle.

That is actually a very hard problem. Even measuring it is difficult. I do not believe CCSD is particularly good. But then again I do not think I know of a big school system that is good.

The problem with splitting up is that you don't actually fix the problem. You simply isolate it into a few smaller systems while cutting the nicer areas free.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,869 posts, read 13,638,218 times
Reputation: 8987
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
You're being a snob. George Bush attended a prestige university, and he was a C student. CCSD is plagued by cronyism and in some cases, outright incompetence, but it does have it's highlights.

A prestige university is paying for a label. My youngest brat is at the CIA in New York. It costs a ton of money. He could have an equivalent education in culinary arts at CSN for less than a quarter of the price of the CIA. In fact, he spent his first quarter at CIA instructing other students on the basics that he learned at NW Tech in the culinary program while simultaneously maintaining a high grade point average.
The difference being that CIA will open doors that CSN never will. And I agree that CSN is a very good culinary program. But with that CIA sheepskin, your son can simply skip 10 years of climbing the ladder. In addition, CIA offers tools and techniques that CSN can't afford or isn't allowed to. And how can you put a value on 10 years of life? I think it is money well spent.

CIA is the Harvard Law of culinary studies. Why aim for anything lower?

And it's the same thing with our school system. In order to have the kind of schools that other areas of the country enjoy, that's going to mean we all spend more. (And it would take a reboot of our educational philosophy.) Some people will look at the cost and decide it makes them poorer. I think we're poorer for not investing in the future.

How can anyone say we're doing all that we can? There's a waiting list for the magnet schools that is a mile long. Here is a list (albeit a few years old) of the top 100 Ivy League feeder schools: WSJ.com

So, given the choice, would parents prefer a Las Vegas magnet school? Or one of the above schools? ANY of the above schools? You will notice most schools are located in states like New York, Massachusetts, California and New Jersey. These schools raise the bar for all the other schools in those states. And also notice the class sizes -- all very small.

If we had one of those schools on the Wall Street Journal list in Las Vegas, parents would beat each other with croquet mallets in a fight to try to get their children enrolled. Why? These are the excellent schools. If schools were baseball players, this would be the major league. Can anyone stand up, hand over their heart, and swear that we have anything that is even half as good here?

I'm saying that Las Vegas schools don't measure up because CCSD doesn't measure up. And if that makes me a snob, I'm fine with the label.

I do find it surprising that nobody has suggested that our school system is sub-par because of the ethnic make up of our population. I'm very glad of that because I think genetic intelligence "studies" are all a bunch of rubbish. There are extremely bright students in this valley who are slipping through the cracks because our school system has nothing for them. They grow bored with the curriculum and are labeled as "problem students" and end up far short of what they could be. I think we're selling ourselves short.

(And George W Bush had a family that simply paid his way through life. I don't think he is much of an example of what great schools can do for brilliant, motivated people.)

EDIT -- lvoc, my fondest for the best and brightest is almost selfish. They're the ones who have the best chance of cracking fusion/anti-matter/something-we-haven't-thought-up-yet power and cleaning up the polluted mess that we've made of things. The average students and the drop outs aren't going to do that. I believe in the concept that a rising tide lifts all boats. Improve the situation for the gifted, and everyone else will benefit in both the long and short term.

Last edited by ScoopLV; 04-16-2013 at 11:10 PM..
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:05 PM
 
Location: ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡) (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻ ̡
7,112 posts, read 10,852,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
The problem with splitting up is that you don't actually fix the problem. You simply isolate it into a few smaller systems while cutting the nicer areas free.
But smaller isolated problems should be easier to take care of.

I predict if we break the school system up, one district will probably do better than the other. Which is expected, but at least you can figure out what's working for one district that isn't working for the other. Finances, teachers, admins, students etc.

If that does not work then break the districts up even more until it is manageable.

And if that does not work then make each school it's own district. If a school is performing poorly, then the blame falls solely on the principal.

If a principal has problems with a teacher, replace them.

If a teacher has problems with a student, boot them out the class.

The trickle down effect.






Motorola DynaTAC 8000x
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:29 PM
 
3,513 posts, read 4,355,224 times
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Originally Posted by von949 View Post
If a principal has problems with a teacher, replace them.
Personally, I have never had a principal so capricious that I was unfairly targeted, but I've seen it done. I would be leery of giving one person that much power without counter balances.

Quote:
If a teacher has problems with a student, boot them out the class.

The trickle down effect.
I'm down with that.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:34 AM
 
Location: North Las Vegas NV
499 posts, read 870,694 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by von949 View Post
How long has she been in the "pool"? It took us a year to get in. They say it is easier when you apply during elementary school and are already in the G.A.T.E. program. I have coworkers that have been waiting 3-5 years to get in.


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She has been on the alternate pool every year since 4th grade. She was also in the GATE program in elementary school and honor society president in 5th grade. I do have to apply every year for the magnet programs. I don't think the application rolls over every year, I could be wrong.
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