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Old 12-14-2016, 08:12 AM
 
9,829 posts, read 7,129,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newopty View Post
No effect on tourism. Really? Every game will have a large contingent of fans from opposing cities. If you knew anything about the NFL you would know that already there are teams such as the Steelers and Packers that have large groups traveling to every game they play. It is sometimes difficult to tell which is the home team. With Las Vegas as the destination you can expect that to happen for every opposing team. Something I wonder about is will a Las Vegas team have a home field advantage?
Do those fans really travel well or are they simply local fans of that team that come out for those games?
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Old 12-14-2016, 09:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
Do those fans really travel well or are they simply local fans of that team that come out for those games?
You are right that some are local/transplants but many travel. The planes are full of them.

With a destination like Las Vegas it will give fans a reason to book a long weekend when their team is in Las Vegas. The argument that having a team here won't help tourism is a silly one.
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Old 12-14-2016, 10:22 AM
 
452 posts, read 335,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LasVegasPlayer View Post
I have not heard this and can't find anything in searches though admittedly it is a tough search because of the LVCC "expansion" that shows up over and over. Do you have a link handy? I'm curious how they would go about this. I suppose they could build permanent seats if ever awarded the prize. I doubt temp seats would fly. It still makes me wonder why they wouldn't just build it with 70k all along if they will build it expandable. I guess they aren't as optimistic as they want us to think.

There is another issue. The new Meadowlands stated it could not host a Super Bowl if the league failed to prevail in its lawsuit against NJ sports betting. The NFL prevailed twice but it seems an obvious conclusion would be that same policy applies to Nevada.

As for the bowls, none that would ever be in the playoff rotation could ever play in Las Vegas per NCAA rules. It seems the most likely college events would be a more prestigious or at least better-attended LV Bowl or a conference football championship. Las Vegas couldn't feasible host a bowl game after about December 27 for a variety of reasons.
no I don't have a link, but I remember them talking about it somewhere maybe at the sntic meetings. Plus it wouldn't be the first stadium with under 70k to host a superbowl
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:39 PM
 
529 posts, read 510,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newopty View Post
No effect on tourism. Really? Every game will have a large contingent of fans from opposing cities. If you knew anything about the NFL you would know that already there are teams such as the Steelers and Packers that have large groups traveling to every game they play. It is sometimes difficult to tell which is the home team. With Las Vegas as the destination you can expect that to happen for every opposing team. Something I wonder about is will a Las Vegas team have a home field advantage?
You're right, it isn't zero, but it might as well be, even for the absolute most popular teams. Let's say 5,000 Steelers fans come and rent the average 2.5 people per hotel room. That is 2,000 hotel rooms. That is about 1.35% of the total hotel rooms in the market. That number would have little effect on hotel rates or overall economic impact.

The Raiders host the Steelers about once every 4.5-5 years. The Raiders host the Packers exactly once every eight years. The same goes for the Cowboys. Those are the three most traveled teams, however, those visiting fans you see didn't all travel. Many, or arguably most, are local fans that are at best a net-zero effect on the economy. These three teams would slightly more than 1% to the tourism numbers once every 1,000 days.

There is evidence that loyal fans close by don't even travel. Look at all the troubles the Chargers have selling tickets to Raiders games. Those fans wouldn't have to even miss dinner to go to San Diego from Los Angeles, much less spend money on a hotel, and they still don't in any serious numbers. It took extensions to avoid blackouts under the old rules for many of those games to sell out. A San Diego blackout affected Los Angeles. I think that tells you all you need to know about whether Rams, Cardinals or Chargers fans will travel here.

How many Bills, Jaguars, Texans, Titans, Chiefs, Browns, Bengals, Dolphins, Jets, Ravens and Colts fans are traveling? That number is about zero. You can't even fly nonstop to Las Vegas from many of those cities. Those teams will comprise about half of the home dates each year. Then you have the two annual NFC home games. Let's think about all those Falcons, Panthers, Saints, Bucs, Lions, Vikings, Bears, Eagles and 49ers fans running to Las Vegas. That number also rounds to zero.

Many of the teams mentioned above struggle to even sellout their own stadiums for home dates. Some cover up seats or are known to publish false attendance numbers. Those fans are traveling across the country to go sit with Raiders fans that have one of the worst reputations in the NFL?

If the Raiders can't sell out season tickets to locals, the entire experiment is an instant failure. I suspect they would sell out season tickets for at least a few years. The NFL wouldn't ever allow the team to move here if they didn't agree.

Where will these tens of thousands of tourists that are allegedly flocking to Las Vegas to watch the Jaguars and Texans going to get their tickets? Are they going to pay $500 on Stubhub for their end zone seats to sit with these infamous Raiders' fans? Of course they will, because it is Las Vegas!

It seems some are preoccupied by the "Las Vegas is different" argument. Yes, it is. The NFL is different, too. There aren't too many people that are going to spend 5-10 times face value for a ticket after spending over $1,000 on hotel rooms, airfare and overpriced food to travel across the country to watch two historically crap teams play each other when they can sit at home and watch the game on TV for free.
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Old 12-14-2016, 02:47 PM
 
529 posts, read 510,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calisoccer99 View Post
no I don't have a link, but I remember them talking about it somewhere maybe at the sntic meetings. Plus it wouldn't be the first stadium with under 70k to host a superbowl
You're right. There was one. The Metrodome is the only Super Bowl site that ever had a capacity of under 70,000. That Super Bowl was approved in the late 1980's. Ford Field removed about 4,000 seats after hosting its Super Bowl and now seats just under 66,000. Every other Super Bowl stadium still seats at least 70,000 or did when it hosted its last event before demolition.
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Old 12-14-2016, 04:05 PM
 
529 posts, read 510,935 times
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Goodell is having a press conference right now. He says (paraphrased) the league doesn't like the Oakland or San Diego stadium proposals and won't dismiss the Las Vegas move vote. He doesn't have a vote, but I doubt his opinion ventures too far from the NFL owners' consensus. That doesn't address the Adelson equity issue but it shows the league is either trying to squeeze a better Oakland deal or is ready to talk about a relo.

I can't wait until I get to see all the Nevada lawmakers that voted yes in their Raiders' box seats paid for by our tax money.
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Old 12-14-2016, 05:08 PM
 
799 posts, read 706,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LasVegasPlayer View Post

I can't wait until I get to see all the Nevada lawmakers that voted yes in their Raiders' box seats paid for by our tax money.
Well, one of them won't be a lawmaker anymore. I was happy to vote against the big spending (of other peoples money) loser. Unfortunately, the person replacing them is probably an equally large spender of other people's money, but in this case, I'll take a chance over a proven track record of wasteful spending.
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Old 12-14-2016, 05:24 PM
 
529 posts, read 510,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachhead View Post
Well, one of them won't be a lawmaker anymore. I was happy to vote against the big spending (of other peoples money) loser. Unfortunately, the person replacing them is probably an equally large spender of other people's money, but in this case, I'll take a chance over a proven track record of wasteful spending.
I believe 10 were defeated in the general and a handful more were termed out or lost other elections, like Fiore. My favorite was John Moore who only got 6% of the vote in his reelection bid after a massive uprising in his district about his stadium vote being the 28th that got it passed.

Victoria Seaman, another one I was happy to see out, lost trying to get a state senate seat. She voted against the education tax but for the stadium tax. She clearly has her priorities wrong and needed to go. You'll never guess who donated a truckload full of cash into her campaign right before the stadium vote.
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:21 PM
 
799 posts, read 706,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LasVegasPlayer View Post
You'll never guess who donated a truckload full of cash into her campaign right before the stadium vote.
Not Shelly baby? Billionaires gotta get all they can from the little guy ya know...

I seem to remember there being a discussion that the voters would get a chance to "veto" this massive boondoggle, even if the legislators decided to waste taxpayer money on this white elephant. Is this true, or is this a done scam...errrr....deal now? Because it seems like if the people who actually will end up holding the bag when the glitter wears off of this white elephant actually got to vote on it, it would fail.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:11 PM
 
529 posts, read 510,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachhead View Post
Not Shelly baby? Billionaires gotta get all they can from the little guy ya know...

I seem to remember there being a discussion that the voters would get a chance to "veto" this massive boondoggle, even if the legislators decided to waste taxpayer money on this white elephant. Is this true, or is this a done scam...errrr....deal now? Because it seems like if the people who actually will end up holding the bag when the glitter wears off of this white elephant actually got to vote on it, it would fail.
It can go on the ballot with 10% of the number of signatures from this past election. It would also repeal the convention center tax. One of the anti groups I know will start the petition drive if there is a sign a team is coming. It is far from a sure thing now so they don't want to waste their time on it.

I would love to get the last laugh if the Raiders get approved to move here and we referendum veto it but that is a lot of signatures to get. It needs like 105,000.
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